Caitlyn Jenner's new campaign against "gender extremists"

[BonfireLady]

Apologies if this is a duplicate thread but I don't think I've seen it elsewhere.

Caitlyn Jenner has launched a new political action committee to protect children from the (pull towards a pathway of medicalisation for life and sterilisation) impact of gender identity belief and to protect the integrity of women's sports. It's targeted at exposing and stopping the influence of gender belief extremists, not the every day lives of transgender people.

She's receiving both support and criticism.

"I don't want to be a trans activist," Jenner responded "I gave millions and millions of dollars away in philanthropy to LGBT organizations. I want to be a trans example not an activist. Live your life however, you want that's the beautiful thing about this country."

It's great to see her stepping up as a role model for safety, fairness and boundaries.

Article in Newsweek

A slur incidentally that many LGB people have explained they find distressing and offensive.

But the TQ+ political lobby say they don't care about this, so the whole be kind/be sensitive to language/ unsafe thing is yet again demonstrated as nothing more than manipulative words for own benefit, devoid of any actual connection to real values or a capacity to care about others.

Use AGPs as you're spokespeople and you're just prolonging the crazy

I'd rather an idiot matt walsh who is clear that men arent women, than an idiot jenner who claims that some men are women in some situations.

The problem is we are trying to stop men invading womens spaces and opportunities piecemeal. And using different arguments to justify why women have those spaces and opportunities- saftey, fear of violence, strength, muscle mass. Its never ending. If we just said men arent women and can never be women, every women only space stays women only. If men can never be women, what does transition mean and why are we doing it to children?

We shouldnt let men negotiate what it is to be a woman and when.

We shouldnt let men negotiate what it is to be a woman and when.

Exactly.

The issue is most people still don't quite understand what is going on. When they are seeing a celebrety trans speak up against trans issues they are more likely to understand something is going on instead of just going along with the narrative that we are evil terf bigots that ALL large media is pushing.

You can dislike it all you want, but it helps us push the discussions into the wide open. That is what we need now. This isn't a perfect magic fantansy land. You take what you can get and work with it from there.

Jenner could be seen as a "bridge" for those who believe fully in the magical bravery to enable some critical thinking - not least the sport aspect.

But Jenner is still part of the problem.

Personally I feel that Jaime, the nurse (?) who worked in a gender care ward for kids is more effective as she both spelled very eloquently, is left leaning, lesbian and married to a transman.

Don't like to use the tick boxes but someone like her appeals to the right on trans aggressive lefty mothers as she openly picks apart the key issues whilst being a 'lefty lgbtq pin up.'

Jaime is still part of the issue due to her being married to a trans man.

I'm thinking about how you try to reach the masses from a psychological and political pov.

How do you try to make people think differently and critically?

It helps us push the discussions into the wide open. That is what we need now. This isn't a perfect magic fantansy land. You take what you can get and work with it from there.

Yep. My boundaries are very clear. Transwomen are not men. There is no wiggle room anywhere on this as far as laws, policies, sports, health education etc are concerned.

However, this is such a complex and nuanced area because it is a fact that many people have a belief in gender identity. I don't want to fight this, any more than I do against someone's belief in God (or multiple gods in the case of some religions). I'm happy to respect others' beliefs. To fight against someone's core belief seems futile and, sometimes, hostile.

Caitlyn Jenner holds a different belief to me. She believes in gender identity and I do not. I have no doubt that she has done (and probably will continue to do) many things as a result of her belief that I cannot and will not support: using women's toilets, the subterfuge that goes along with taking her daughter's dresses etc.

To borrow again from my religion analogy, I would be very happy to add my voice to campaign for prayer rooms in all workplaces, so that Muslim people can pray in peace at the right times of day in accordance with their belief. I would never support a campaign for, hypothetically, mandated wearing of hijabs for Muslim women in all workplaces. Nor would I see prayer room provision as an inevitable slippery slope towards mandated hijab wearing. There are decision points and discussions along the way.

If Caitlin Jenner is successful in bringing trans and non-trans people along with her, to help protect children and sports, this is a great outcome. If she then goes on to push for anything that crosses boundaries due to the conflation of sex and gender, there would be many voices who say no. Mine included.

Ha ha! Typo.
Trans women are not women

My boundaries are anything but clear with typos like that! 🤦‍♀️

If Caitlin Jenner is successful in bringing trans and non-trans people along with her, to help protect children and sports, this is a great outcome. If she then goes on to push for anything that crosses boundaries due to the conflation of sex and gender, there would be many voices who say no. Mine included.

You are very naive. This is not how it works. Forced teaming builds up a network of friendships and obligations making women unable to say no to the AGP - see the gentry left and Dr Hayton.

@TinselAngel I'm not naive. I'm realistic.

The situation with children is so critical, is so appalling that I'll accept someone like Jenner weighing in on this. As I will over women's sport.

We're at a stage where tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of children see drugs and surgery as an appealing & acceptable solution to their pubertal angst. Children must be our absolute priority at the moment and it's people like Jenner speaking out who WILL be listened to by the vast number of useful idiots adults enabling all this. They're not listening to us are they?

I've just hopped over from the Dee Snider thread that's on the board too.

Caitlyn and Dee should team up on this one. He seems like a very articulate guy and they both feel strongly about this issue. He is a trans ally who is taking a stance on being refused allyship whilst also standing up for children's safety.

No you're naive OP, and eventually you'll realise it.

Possibly. Time will tell I guess.

I'm sure there will have been people who considered me naive when I challenged and then collaborated with CAMHS after they (with what I believe were the best of intentions) misrepresented my daughter as "identifying as male", amongst other things.

I wasn't going to let her slip into a medicalised pathway. She is autistic and vulnerable and I was fully aware of the complex, nuanced and (conciously and unconsciously) biased arena that I was navigating. Had I dug my heels in, rather than seeking to listen and understand, I have no doubt that I would have been dismissed as a bigot and blocked from getting my daughter the (fantastic) care that she is now getting to help with her mental health.

This is my and my daughter's story

At the end of the day, we can't control Jenner he has money and privilege that most women can only dream of. We don't get to decide what he does, all we can do is try and turn it to our advantage and I agree that people will listen to him when they won't listen to us... because of the money and privilege and also because they can't be accused of transphobia when they listen to him.

Ps to be fair, I dug my heels in very hard when needed too. It was a balance of both. But I wasn't going to let a line be crossed: I wasn't going to let my daughter enter a pathway where there was no evidence that supported it being the right one for her.

Jaime is still part of the issue due to her being married to a trans man.

I'm not sure what kind of issue this is?

That's a fantastic story @BonfireLady and I bow in admiration of the way you supported your daughter and navigated your and her way through this issue.

Thank you.

I appreciate it's an odd thing to throw in to a thread about Caitlyn Jenner but hopefully it illustrates an example of what can be achieved by collaboration (in unlikely ways) and determination when they are combined to achieve a goal.

What's not covered in the article (it's impossible to cover every angle) is that the GP has a belief in both the validity of gender identity and also a strong desire to help people with gender dysphoria. Although I don't have a belief in gender identity, I do believe that the distress that is caused by gender dysphoria is real, as did the GP. We also both shared the value that my daughter should not be subject to any bias in her gender identity exploration. Obviously I also needed to accept that that included bias from me.

This led to lots of different conversations about how best to safeguard her. The document that resulted meant that the outcome of her gender identity exploration was open but that the influences on her were, as far as possible, removed. This also meant that it was possible to do a differential diagnosis, by focusing on the immediate distress of her changing body without conflating it with gender identity.

I still use the safeguarding document now, for every appointment with someone new. If it isn't accepted, we don't attend the appointment.

I reckon many people don't appreciate just how difficult this is for parents. Your story BonfireLady gives a little hope that it is possible to challenge this - thank you for persisting.

If Caitlin Jenner is standing up and stating that children shouldn't be groomed into believing that transitioning is positive for them, then I'm on the same side. Everyone speaking out has a place in raising awareness of the harm this is doing to children.

Oh dear, I can't remember what I wrote now. Was I generalising, or being too specific!

Issue is the wrong word; you simply can't change sex. Jaime and her partner are parents.

Politically though, Jaime being part of the "lgbtq community" and speaking so precisely about the harms for children is extremely helpful for tackling this abuse of children and busting the myths among lefty leaning be kind types.