Trans rights: what is it that they want?

[Pluvia]

Serious question arising from a conversation regarding Victor Madrigal and the UN guidelines.

What are people who shout Trans Rights are Human Rights actually talking about?

I have a Zoom meeting in 4 minutes, otherwise I'd venture more.

I'm getting angry about this acceptance that trans people don't have access to healthcare in the uk.

To accept this belief you have to assume natal women have access to healthcare. From the natal women I know I can list multiple examples of not getting access to healthcare we need. Years and years dismissed over things like PCOS endometriosis. Prolapse just left for the woman to deal with. Left without functioning bladder's after birth trauma. Physical health dismissed as mental health. I actually know if a woman who died of a brain tumour who was dismissed for months and months with "it's just part of getting old". Now maybe she would have died anyway but maybe not. Someone who came out of hospital with UTI and serious infections because there was no help in hospital to deal with their period when they were physically unable to move. Children who are literally suicidal not getting mental health support. Children with neurodivergence waiting years unsupported for diagnosis (then no support anyway). I could go on and on.

I honestly don't think most people arguing TW have not got access to healthcare know reality of healthcare for natal women. To me it feels like our limited access is being pushed down the priority list in favour of men

This makes their general tactic of being vague about their precise demands seem very sensible, as the stuff in that list is going to look like complete lunacy to 90% of the population.

And also the right to falsify their medical records (but retain the right to take no responsibility when this goes horribly wrong eg the pregnant trans man who had a stillbirth because they presented as an obese man not a pregnant woman, or are sent for the wrong tests for their body, or the wrong drug doses are used, or the wrong test reference ranges are used, etc....)

Let's take this to the logical conclusion trans activists want to take it. (Not all people who are trans want the same thing and not all who are trans are also activists).

If they did get all their demands met what would happen then? Do you think they would say, thank you very much, and go away quietly to get on with their lives? How many charities can you name that having achieved all they said they'd set out to achieve then folded saying they had nothing further to do.

The journey is the thing, not the destination. The means matter most. That's why the demands become ever more outlandish. It's the fight they want. The battle. The sense of being alive. Some people just like having something to fight for and achieving their end goals is never their end goal. The goalposts never stay in the same place. Winning is not the objective; playing is!

yup. 30 years ago, Stonewall had a budget in the c £100k p.a. range, used to fight issues including the illegality of gay marriage, unequal ages of consent, unequal adoption rules, section 28, etc.

today, Stonewall has a budget in the c £10m p.a. range, used to fight issues including, er, pronouns and, er,...

30 years ago, Stonewall had a budget in the c £100k p.a. range, used to fight issues including the illegality of gay marriage, unequal ages of consent, unequal adoption rules, section 28, etc.

today, Stonewall has a budget in the c £10m p.a. range, used to fight issues including, er, pronouns and, er,...

Follow The Money....

Moon on a stick.

Colonisation of womanhood and women's spaces, along with all the other stuff they colonise.

I think they want to silence middle-aged women. I was thinking about this today about the Karen insult. I can't remember a time historically when there's been an insult to describe middle-aged women. It was really telling that the man in Starbucks who was verbally abusive to the woman, called her Karen, and clearly didn't see anything wrong with being able to do that, whilst denying her the right to call someone who look like a woman a lady.

The final goal, it seems to me, is the re-colonisation of the female sex globally.

The trans movement is not that bothered about the male sex and mostly lets it keep its old vocabulary and rules (the few recent examples of demanding inclusion in male health articles ('people with testes') are because gender critical criticism of the inclusiveness only being used against the female sex) makes the sexism look too clear otherwise.

It might be a coincidence that this colonisation is happening at the same time as the other new lefty trends of supporting surrogacy and sex work as good female career opportunities, and also with the mainstreaming of even extremely misogynistic pornography by most political camps.

But they fit neatly together within one theoretical (sexist) framework where the female body is dehumanised and commercialised and separated from the reality where female human beings are human beings and deserve fair treatment and a voice in matters which are about their bodies, ultimately, and how those bodies are now seen.

The final goal, it seems to me, is the re-colonisation of the female sex globally.

I keep seeing posts on here berating women for caring about this. I can’t believe we’re not more up in arms tbh

This

How bizarre, my post was deleted when it actually stated some of the things in the ACTUAL trans manifesto.

MNHQ maybe you should look at the trans manifesto if it so offensive. After all, it's those people who you are pandering to by deleting perfectly rational posts.

Oh FFS seriously? For literally linking to a document which is publicly available?

If people don't like that document, they should campaign to have it removed, to say 'you don't speak for me'.

Not censor people for mentioning its existence!

Thanks for all these suggestions.

I took some of the points from the UN report to a Labour MP, advised to do so by my own GC Labour MP. He said that trans people just wanted the same human rights as everyone else. I said that as far as I was aware, transpeople had precisely the same rights as as everyone else. My MP looked at me as if I was a bit stupid and said 'Transpeople want to right not to be discriminated against and to live free from prejudice.'

I said don't we all, it would be amazing if I could go out with my female partner and not get sarky service from waiters or the occasional 'Lezzers' jeer from passing cars or have taxi drivers asking what we do in bed. It would be wonderful if my partner wasn't sidelined for promotion in her work because she's an older woman and she doesn't go drinking or go to drag clubs with the blokes I'm management. Wouldn't it be amazing if black people could go about their business without experiencing racism and disabled people were miraculously enabled to work and travel as freely as possible...

It was a really, really depressing meeting. He proved that he knew sod all about this subject and is convinced it's only a tiny number of cranks like me and my partner, to whom is matters at all.

Very sorry to hear that @Pluvia that's appalling. It's like lesbians don't matter whereas people are who trans do! It's as if same-sex attracted people simply aren't seen anymore! Only people who are trans. And an MP really should be fully briefed on this, not just pander to the tiny minority of activists who are pushing this!

The final goal, it seems to me, is the re-colonisation of the female sex globally.

Yes I agree with this. It isn't anything new for women to be expected to perform roles for men. This is what many men have always wanted and while, yes, we know NAMALT the dirty little secret is that most men are quite happy with things this way. ALL men benefit from the colonisation of the female sex. And men tend to stick together in a way that women tend not to. Broad sweeping statements, I know, guilty as probably charged. But I think there's more than a grain of truth in this.

In our individual relationships and for sure once women become mothers we have to fight for our spaces, our voices, our needs to be heard. It's always, yes but think about [child/children, husband/partner, parents, wider family, colleagues, friends] where is room for us, where!? That's all we've ever asked for isn't it? To be treated as equal human beings with the same rights, same voices. To be seen and heard!

Perhaps to go about their day without transphobes accusing them of "having a fetish" or having their identity linked to "bestiality... torture... peadophilia... sex with minors". Which is what a speaker at Kelly Jay Keen's recent anti-trans event said.

https://twitter.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1658059532432539650

The UN is right, when you listen to this it's clear the UK does have a problem with transpeople.

Trans people have a problem with gender critical people in the UK too. We are the ones being persecuted for our beliefs, and the method of persecution is to call US the bullies/ haters.

I think you'll find the evidence indicating an element of paedophilia is growing.

I was out the other day with a friend who's obese. We were sitting at a table on a cafe terrace and two separate people, one male and one female, thought it was okay to be very rude to her because of her size.

We all have to deal with vile people on a daily basis. It's part of growing up. You cannot control the entire world's response to you.

Well I suppose women could live in equal hope of misogynists not screaming names/rape threats/death threats at them every time they point out that the situation doesn't work for women, that homosexual women would quite like not to be bullied by men for straight sex, that women in prisons would quite like not to be raped, that issues around fetish, non consensual involvement in a stranger's sexual jollies and extremely dodgy behaviour around children need facing up to.

But we can't always have what we want.

To add, the right to go and from school without being beaten up?

(Unclear what the victim's identity or sexuality is, but the video would suggest they were targeted in a hate crime for looking "different".)

https://twitter.com/Pillar_Citizen/status/1658742708674994176

Video in the above link is NSFW and disturbing to watch. This happened Monday in Ireland.

How do you know that was the reason he was beaten up, or is that just assumed?

I'd be careful of the 'video would suggest' line of reasoning, this is how propaganda and lies are spread.