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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Chlorinatedcoronationchicken · 08/05/2023 06:55

"I'm sure 1st year anatomy is a real hoot there!"
I just spluttered coffee on the bed at this! Sounds like a glinner sketch! "Professor, when are we studying girldick?"

dunBle · 08/05/2023 07:08

Is that the Dr Louise Irvine from the Save Lewisham Hospital campaign, who stood against Jeremy Hunt in the general election a few years ago? Always liked her.

Reallybadidea · 08/05/2023 08:33

Margaret McCartney a GP who regularly appears on Inside Health and whose big interest is evidence based medicine, has been consistently good on this. She tweets occasionally about it and is always bang on.

Much of the rest of 'Medtwitter' has been captured and bully other doctors who post anything GC. It's baffling and disappointing.

Mixedberrygenderfluidmuffin · 08/05/2023 08:46

I’m a GP, VERY openly gender critical at work, and I haven’t met any disagreement from ANY colleagues.

I have vigorously challenged another professional who was using ‘he’ to refer to very vulnerable female patient (not present), and they didn’t disagree with me.

I am not at all a ‘political’ being ( I am probably undiagnosed ASD) and I am totally mystified by the way all the doctor’s organisations have been captured by this ideology.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 08/05/2023 09:00

dunBle · 08/05/2023 07:08

Is that the Dr Louise Irvine from the Save Lewisham Hospital campaign, who stood against Jeremy Hunt in the general election a few years ago? Always liked her.

I assume so. Really impressed by her.

FrancescaContini · 08/05/2023 09:55

MrGHardy · 07/05/2023 23:10

This isn't the main point but the following is actually rather insightful:

“It’s confusing to describe a young female patient’s history of sexual abuse and trauma if I have to refer to her as ‘him’,” said an NHS psychiatrist.

Exactly. This is exactly why pronouns aren't just inconsequential and to be polite one should go along with it. Doing so means lying to yourself. Which indeed can be confusing.

This is very pertinent. How can we talk about sexual abuse and violence against women if our sex is regarded - by some medics, of all people 🤔 - as something we can dip in and out of on a whim?

Great article, Hadley - thank you.

Slothtoes · 08/05/2023 09:56

Also Susan Bewley has been consistently excellent

FrancescaContini · 08/05/2023 09:57

Mixedberrygenderfluidmuffin · 08/05/2023 08:46

I’m a GP, VERY openly gender critical at work, and I haven’t met any disagreement from ANY colleagues.

I have vigorously challenged another professional who was using ‘he’ to refer to very vulnerable female patient (not present), and they didn’t disagree with me.

I am not at all a ‘political’ being ( I am probably undiagnosed ASD) and I am totally mystified by the way all the doctor’s organisations have been captured by this ideology.

Thank God some of you have your heads screwed on correctly.

mids2019 · 08/05/2023 10:05

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/05/nhs-treatment-algorithms-not-taking-transgender-patients-into-account

And yet we have this where it seems the trans community want a whole new evidence base for medical treatment of trans people. The answer is simple if you were born a certain sex the diagnostic pathway is for that sex. Trans women can't pretend not to have propagated and trans men still to sleeve extent have a uterus. It is unethical in the extreme to ignore biology in the medical profession.

The vast expense (possibly redundant) suggested in this article is ludicrous. It feels like there should be whole new gender based chapters written in medical text books?

NHS treatment algorithms ‘not taking transgender patients into account’

Medics say trans people being put at risk by lack of evidence on how to assess them by gender-based metrics

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/05/nhs-treatment-algorithms-not-taking-transgender-patients-into-account

2Rebecca · 08/05/2023 10:25

A group of junior docs and medical students in the Guardian article group who are the main ones pushing gender ideology. CAN-SG is mainly doctors and other health professional with more experience.

Slothtoes · 08/05/2023 15:02

I couldn’t make sense of the Graun there. ‘gender based scores’ could mean absolutely anything in this context.
i do agree that ‘treatments’ or ‘healthcare’ offered to respond to gender identity distress seem to glaringly lack any evidence for safety and effectiveness and value for public money versus other less invasive and more talking therapy options but maybe that’s not the point that they were trying to make..

mids2019 · 08/05/2023 21:53

@Slothtoes

I presume this means that for measures that are sex specific e.g. BMI there should be a whole new classification for trans people as presumably they may be aiming for a physical shape of their identified sex? I don't think there is any evidence this is necessary or has a bearing on physiological reality but who knows 🤷

Slothtoes · 09/05/2023 10:39

It could be that for sure Mids2019 I just find it troubling that people are seriously calling for public bodies to adopt changes with possibly serious health impact after the meaning of the words used has been obscured. Why should scarce health resources be diverted to what looks like emotional validating? It massively shows up the politicisation here. Wanting it should never be an argument in itself.

Other patient lobby groups would be politely ushered out of the room having been offered a nice cup of tea and asked to come back another time with a clear factual version of what they are actually asking for which can be assessed objectively.

TheBiologyStupid · 09/05/2023 10:50

RealityFan · 07/05/2023 14:29

Sure, it's deffo the Be Kind, Be Yourself, Be Happy therapist/physician mantras that dominate the early and middle journeys.

You only have to read Eliza Mondegreen's shocking reports from the recent EPATH conference...bad data is ignored, free speech and dissent is ignored, the moment a child says they might be trans, they are, and nothing must deviate from transition.

And tellingly, no questions from the floor, nervous laughter when awful data eg osteoporosis risk is mentioned, and the kind of siege mentality that would have embarrassed even David Koresch at Waco.

These poisonous individuals are setting the momentum in gender "care". It's up to this new grouping to shout, and shout loudly enough, so more join, and the EPATH mantra is squarely challenged and reversed.

We kinda thought Tavistock roll up was the end. No, it's not even the beginning of the end, it's the end of the start.

Helen's article indicates the start of the move to get to the start of the end.

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Yes, Eliza Mondegreen's report from the EPATH conference was worrying. So much for hopes that in Europe, at least, reality was starting to break through...

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