Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scientific American on puberty blockers.

30 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 04/05/2023 21:36

Garbled propaganda piece presents blockers as a way to avoid suicide, via thinly veiled ominous threat.

'...patients and their families have to weigh the risk of having lower bone density versus a gender issue that’s not properly treated'

Actually, it's not even veiled.

'Caregivers must weigh any concerns against the lifelong risks of not receiving the care, such as depression and suicidality, and the need for future surgeries, she says.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-are-puberty-blockers-and-how-do-they-work/

This sentence below, in particular, doesn't cite any references or evidence to support the assertion. Does anyone know what they mean? :

'Teens who had access to puberty blockers and hormone therapy require fewer gender-affirming surgeries as adults'

Finally, it's not going down well on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/sciam/status/1653775493550813184?cxt=HHwWgMC99ZODsvMtAAAA

https://twitter.com/sciam/status/1653775493550813184?cxt=HHwWgMC99ZODsvMtAAAA

OP posts:
BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 04/05/2023 22:25

Does anyone know what they mean? :

'Teens who had access to puberty blockers and hormone therapy require fewer gender-affirming surgeries as adults'

Gender affirming surgery covers a very wide range of things - not just the genital surgeries. So I assume they mean things like boys taking puberty blockers very early not having as much facial feminisation surgery when older. (Of course it can also mean genital surgery in those cases is much more difficult and needs more operations - but many operations to achieve a single thing can be counted as '1 surgery').

ArabeIIaScott · 04/05/2023 22:29

Ah, I see. Thanks.

OP posts:
zibzibara · 04/05/2023 22:34

They always cite these few surveys about suicidality. Yet where is the evidence that young people were killing themselves because they wanted to be the opposite sex, prior to the medical construction of trans identity and trans healthcare? This is a very modern cultural malady.

BonfireLady · 04/05/2023 23:13

Yes, it's definitely being challenged on Twitter! Good to see.

Hopefully lots of people with gender incongruent children are now looking more widely for more information before they start their children on a medical pathway.

Hannah Barnes' book Time to Think was a really balanced and in depth review of all of this. It's pretty telling that so many of the staff working in the gender clinic started to doubt the "medicate or they will commit suicide" message.

Also there was a very memorable section in the Swedish documentary Trans Train where the national gender clinic was asked how many children had committed suicide while they were on the waiting list for gender affirming care.... after a bit of a pause the answer was a sheepish "none ".

BonfireLady · 04/05/2023 23:18

Sorry, slight hyperbole... "The parents who have gender incongruent children" is better than "lots of people with gender incongruent children ".

Yes, it's on the increase but "lots" is a poor choice of word.

MrGHardy · 06/05/2023 23:19

They became a propaganda outlet quite some years ago.

IcakethereforeIam · 07/05/2023 00:10

The tweets on the authors twitter are also calling it out. Some interesting articles linked in the tweet thread.

https://twitter.com/parshallison/status/1653417397678637059?s=20

PS totally read Scientific America twitter handle as 'Scam' 😁

https://twitter.com/parshallison/status/1653417397678637059?s=20

SinnerBoy · 07/05/2023 02:15

I don't know about the USA, but in Britain, newspapers and other publications which publish false, or misleading articles are required to print corrections to them.

Quite apart from anything else, Allison Parshall is a theoretical physicist, with no background in biology, or medicine.

ArabeIIaScott · 07/05/2023 06:05

She's not a physicist. The author has an MA in science journalism, and her cv looks like a list of internships, with Scientific American the latest.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-parshall-468a30186

OP posts:
EdgeOfACoin · 07/05/2023 06:10

The Scientific American used to be a credible magazine.

It's sad to see it fall so low.

SinnerBoy · 07/05/2023 08:42

ArabeIIaScott · Today 06:05

She's not a physicist.

Ah, well that's even worse. I typed her name in and a web page said that she was a physicist. Kind of fits - more disinformation!

ArabeIIaScott · 07/05/2023 09:29

SinnerBoy · 07/05/2023 08:42

ArabeIIaScott · Today 06:05

She's not a physicist.

Ah, well that's even worse. I typed her name in and a web page said that she was a physicist. Kind of fits - more disinformation!

Could be, or could be someone else with the same name.

As it is, she is a well qualified journalist so presumably should understand some of the criticism being levelled at her.

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 07/05/2023 09:35
  • News Intern Scientific American Jan 2023 - Present 5 months
  • Writing Intern Quanta MagazineSep 2022 - Dec 2022 4 months
  • Science Intern Inverse Jun 2022 - Aug 2022 3 months
  • 1 year 8 months
  • Production Associate Jun 2020 - Aug 2021 1 year 3 months
  • Video Production Intern Jan 2020 - Jun 20206 months
  • Intern/Production Assistant Third Story Films Sep 2019 - Dec 201 4 months
  • 1 year 5 months Undergraduate Research Assistant, Center for Aphasia Research and Rehabilitation Jun 2018 - Dec 2018 7 months
  • Student Assistant, Office of Global Education Aug 2017 - Aug 2018 1 year 1 month

Qualifications:

  • New York UniversityMaster of Arts - MAScience, Health, & Environmental Reporting2021 - 2022
  • Georgetown UniversityBachelor's degreePsychology2016 - 2020
  • Minors: Cognitive Science, French

She's worked in science research, and has an MA in Science reporting. When someone is qualified on paper but can produce such a heavily weighted article, it's worrying. Either she's failed to research properly or she's pushing a specific ideological approach and doing that by some glaring omissions (international practise is moving away from using puberty blockers; look at the Cass report, and recent developments in Finland, Norway and Sweden); the fact that there is no research at all done on puberty blockers for 'gender dysphoria', only on its use for precocious puberty; and by the use of some questionable evidence.

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 07/05/2023 09:36

Gah, sorry, the formatting went all to cock.

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 07/05/2023 11:58

I read it easily enough. It could be that she lacks competence, but I doubt that she'd have lasted for several years, were that the case.

I'm plumping for her being an ideologue.

Circumferences · 07/05/2023 12:26

zibzibara · 04/05/2023 22:34

They always cite these few surveys about suicidality. Yet where is the evidence that young people were killing themselves because they wanted to be the opposite sex, prior to the medical construction of trans identity and trans healthcare? This is a very modern cultural malady.

YY.. absolutely. Exactly.
No suicide notes were written "I wanted to be a different sex but couldn't so bye bye" before the 21st century.

MrGHardy · 07/05/2023 23:22

SinnerBoy · 07/05/2023 11:58

I read it easily enough. It could be that she lacks competence, but I doubt that she'd have lasted for several years, were that the case.

I'm plumping for her being an ideologue.

she/her in twitter bio...

SinnerBoy · 08/05/2023 04:20

Ah, not a killer blow, but definitely supporting evidence.

NecessaryScene · 08/05/2023 06:09

This has prompted a detailed response from Jesse Singal - "The stakes are too high for this".

Imagine a pillar of frowny faces ten thousand light-years high.

[...]

So:

1. The authors of a major study, in their preregistered protocol, say they’re going to measure suicidality in a sample of kids who go on hormones.

2. They mysteriously fail to report anything about that variable, other than to note, almost as an aside, that there were two completed suicides — meaning the sample had a high rate of suicide. Several other key variables are missing as well, with no explanation.

3. In short, the study provides no evidence that, in this sample of trans youth, access to hormones reduced suicidality.

4. Scientific American points to this study as evidence that hormones reduce suicidality in trans youth.

You can see how this is frustrating, right? You can see why I keep writing these articles?

He remains a total centrist softy though...

This has been frustrating me for years. Journalists and pundits are utterly failing to disseminate accurate information about very serious treatments, in some cases straightforwardly misleading their audiences — among them parents trying to make medical decisions for kids who are too young to consent on their own — about vital questions involving mental health and suicide. I believe that this will go down as a major journalistic blunder that will be looked back upon with embarrassment and regret.

[...]

Here's the article. I feel a little bad critiquing it because it was written by a SciAm intern. But it was published in one of the leading science outlets in the world, and it does have some major problems, so I don’t know what to say.

I blame the editors, for whom this is a pattern, far more than I blame the individual author. I’m not going to name her, because I’m not trying to cause long-lasting Google damage to a young journalist’s reputation, but obviously her name will not be hard to find. I promise you, notwithstanding any of the criticisms that follow, that when I was a young journalist I wrote far worse stuff than what she wrote here. She is in a difficult situation, attempting to write about an issue where there is so much spin and so much politicization that it is impossible not to step on landmines unless you are very, very careful. Her editors were not careful. Not at all.

He takes the opportunity to dig back into all the dodgy "suicide" research - a lot of which he's covered before, but this piece collates it all together.

Sunnava · 08/05/2023 07:27

This is the fault of the Scientific American editor, not the intern they commissioned. SciAm also published a completely garbled and logically inconsistent piece by biological anthropologist Augustin Fuentes last week that conflated sex and gender (and DSD conditions, and mammals and other organisms) despite acknowledging that sex in mammals is binary, then was backed up by his equally conflating anthropologist pal Holly Dunsworth, and then the “Radical Anthropology” group who stated that believing one is the opposite sex literally re-makes a person into the opposite sex.

The three (Fuentes, SciAm, Dunsworth) then entered a praising and re-tweeting loop that circled and circled, backing the other two parties up (with occasional self-insertions by the Radical Anthropology group).

When the vast majority of biologists protested Fuentes’ idiocy (and logical inconsistency even within his own work!), the trio doubled down, with Dunsworth tweeting that those who believed in biological sex were obsessed with (j)izz and eggs due to transphobia (a tweet since deleted). Astonishing and embarrassing to behold.

Kucinghitam · 08/05/2023 07:48

I don't really know the background of Quillette (looking at their material, they're clearly not on The Right Side of History) but I spotted this podcast:

Michael Shermer on Watching ‘Scientific American’ Go Woke

Quillette podcast host Jonathan Kay talks to book author and Skeptic editor Michael Shermer about why scientific media, professional organizations, and acade...

https://youtu.be/72Ky-xukAyI

ArabeIIaScott · 08/05/2023 07:52

Yes, good point re the responsibility lying with the editors.

When misinformation is being cited to push the idea that children should be put on a path to sterilisation, it has to be countered. Whoever wrote it.

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 08/05/2023 07:53

The thought occurs to me - why did they get an intern to write an article on such a contentious hot button issue?

Convenient scapegoat?

OP posts:
DemiColon · 09/05/2023 10:31

Slightly an aside, maybe, but I think that the fact that magazines like SA, National Geographic, and Psychology Today, have spouted this stuff is a huge reason so many regular people have bought into trans ideology.

These people see these magazines as being good, solid, popular science magazines that can be trusted. And if they are saying this stuff is scientifically sound, people believe it.

They don't have to buy into all the weird ideology, they think that "gender incongruence" is a result of some kind of intersex brain condition. TWAW, because science shows it to be true.

It's very difficult to convince people who have bought into this view from that pseudo-scientific standpoint otherwise, because they truly are convinced they are "following the science."

ArabeIIaScott · 09/05/2023 10:39

I completely agree, DemiColon.

These publications hold a fair amount of clout and esteem, despite them frequently publishing the most astonishing badly-written and poorly evidenced rubbish.

They're more accessible, more widely read, and thus more influential than actual peer reviewed journals. Yet don't have any standards to hold to, nor are they held in any way responsible for publishing 'bad science', because they're just pop-sci.

It's an interesting position to hold. All the power, none of the responsibility.

OP posts: