Women killed by ex-partners. Is it time to change the kaw?

[Redebs]

Forty years ago a friend and work colleague of my mum was murdered by her husband in the presence of their nine-year-old child. She had just told her husband that she had met someone else and wanted to end the marriage.

He was given every sympathy by local people and during his trial, because despite his open affairs with a number of women, his wife should not have tried to leave him. He was allowed to go to her funeral.

I read this article this morning. It doesn't seem that much has changed over the years. Despite years of abuse, coercion and threats, a man who kills an ex-partner in her home commits a lesser crime and receives a much lighter sentence than someone killed by a stranger. Absolutely chilling.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/03/the-killing-of-joanna-simpson-she-was-bludgeoned-and-buried-by-her-husband-why-is-he-being-set-free

[Whaeanui]

Thanks for sharing and your story is just sad and horrible. I agree regarding the laws too. You should receive the same sentence, perhaps even a higher one. The idea of the murderer going to the funeral truly sickens me.

[SavBlancTonight]

It's absolutely horrendous. DH was reading about this this morning and he's enraged - possibly even more than me. I think because I'm so worn down by the reality of being a woman while he's still at the stage where when he learns these things he's shocked and infuriated.

The subtle message that these women all contributed to their murder by having difficult divorces or whatever is sooo pervasive and despicable.

[IcakethereforeIam]

I never understood with the premeditated and planning of that crime how that bastard escaped a murder charge. Now I understand better. The people who should have been working to get Joanna Simpson justice should be ashamed. The jury got played and they helped.

In the article it says that someone who brings a knife to a crime will get a harsher sentence. These murderers know where the knives are when they're at home, they don't need to bring one, why would they?

[RoseslnTheHospital]

The allowing of the manslaughter charge instead of murder is baffling. And I truly believe that this man would be a danger to any woman he is in a relationship with, and that no woman should be put at risk of being in that position without knowing about his history.

That he could do that with the children there, then putting them in the car with their murdered mother.... it's physically sickening to me.

[heathspeedwell]

It's really frightening that so much male pattern violence is minimised. We should all be aware that men commit around 99% of sex crimes and over 80% of violent crime.

As women we instinctively know that men, as a class, are dangerous. And yet we are under so much pressure to be kind and to ignore our instincts.

Women are actively encouraged to prioritise the rights and feelings of men over our own safety, dignity and privacy. You see it all the time when it comes to sentencing men for violent crimes and murder. You see it often here on Mumsnet too, but in more subtle forms.

[SavBlancTonight]

I also find it baffling how being murdered outside your home is considered so much worse. As a woman, there's an element of always being "aware" when outside of my home. I'm not walking around terrified all the time, but let's face it, if I was attacked I wouldn't be 100% shocked. But in my home? That's where I have a normal expectation of safety and control. It's where I let my guard down.

I don't think that sentencing should be impacted by WHERE a murder takes place. But if it IS going to affect things, then it should be the other way round - murdering someone in their home is worse.

[ArcaneWireless]

I’m half waiting for first time domestic murderers to be given community service.

Out in a few years? Where is the justice in that?

[ArabeIIaScott]

Yes, I am stunned by people's responses sometimes. A pregnant woman was recently killed here by her partner, his body is subsequently found, and people are expressing sadness over his death, calling it a tragedy?! He was a violent murderer, how on earth do people express sadness over his death?

[SavBlancTonight]

@ArabeIIaScott

Yes, I am stunned by people's responses sometimes. A pregnant woman was recently killed here by her partner, his body is subsequently found, and people are expressing sadness over his death, calling it a tragedy?! He was a violent murderer, how on earth do people express sadness over his death?

Oh, but don't you know, his mental health was obviously terrible so poor little pickle man can't be blamed for anything he did as a result and we should feel sorry for him.

In fact, we should probably blame her - why didn't she help him more with his mental health?

[Whaeanui]

It's really frightening that so much male pattern violence is minimised. 

Yes, this is it. It is frightening for women to live in this world.

[ArcaneWireless]

I think I know the case of which you speak Arabella

Again. Premeditated. (allegedly of course but how else do you explain the much loved dog being given to a family member beforehand?)

And the only tragedy about it? For me it is that he didn’t just take himself out of the equation.

How dare he make that choice for his partner and their unborn baby.

[jay55]

Diminished responsibility when he'd already dug a hole for the body. Ffs.

Something needs to change.

[Redebs]

The fact that it's seen as a less serious crime reminds me of the bad old days when police didn't intervene when a woman was being beaten up by her husband as it was 'only a domestic'. It's as if part of the blame is on the victim herself. She 'must have driven him to it'.

I'm not big on heavier punishment solely for the sake of justice, but in this kind of situation, when someone receives a shorter sentence for premeditated murder of his wife or partner, he's pretty likely to come out and be abusive to other partners.

[Whaeanui]

It's as if part of the blame is on the victim herself. She 'must have driven him to it'.

Yes, this is exactly what it is.

[missingthewinchesterboys]

Tortoise media have a couple of podcasts on hidden women & fallen women. Women who are not included in the femicide stats but whom have obviously be murdered by a 'partner'.
It's fucking outrageous

[StarbucksSmarterSister]

I read that article today. It's unbelievable and the attitude of the prosecutor was appalling. And now he's a judge.

[turbonerd]

@SavBlancTonight

I also find it baffling how being murdered outside your home is considered so much worse. As a woman, there's an element of always being "aware" when outside of my home. I'm not walking around terrified all the time, but let's face it, if I was attacked I wouldn't be 100% shocked. But in my home? That's where I have a normal expectation of safety and control. It's where I let my guard down.

I don't think that sentencing should be impacted by WHERE a murder takes place. But if it IS going to affect things, then it should be the other way round - murdering someone in their home is worse.

Agree. It really should be a point that makes the sentence harsher, not more lenient!
And the fact that children very often are present, during attempted murders too, should be a factor that sends these bastards away for good.

[Cosmosforbreakfast]

@ArabeIIaScott

Yes, I am stunned by people's responses sometimes. A pregnant woman was recently killed here by her partner, his body is subsequently found, and people are expressing sadness over his death, calling it a tragedy?! He was a violent murderer, how on earth do people express sadness over his death?

Not an ounce of sympathy from me for him. I'm sick of seeing his photo plastered everywhere and the tributes saying he was such a lovely guy etc. He murdered a pregnant woman, his fiancee, he murdered his own unborn baby but people are making more of the fact he was troubled and bereaved. It has really angered me.

[Madeintowerhamlets]

It’s sickening but not surprising sadly. I sent an email to my MP about it.

[StarbucksSmarterSister]

@Madeintowerhamlets

It’s sickening but not surprising sadly. I sent an email to my MP about it.

Me too. The link is here should anyone else wish to contact their MP.

https://action.jsfoundation.org.uk/help-keep-dangerous-killer-our-streets

[Rainonthehorizon]

In case anyone wants to know more about this case, as told by Joanna's mother, there was an episode on the Crime Analyst podcast which focused on the murder of Joanna Simpson by her ex-husband, just after they'd divorced.

The episdoe started off explaining how Camilla Parker-Bowles met Joanna's mother (Diana Parkes) and became very involved in speaking out about domestic violence. It's a very powerful episode and Diana Parkes is a very impressive woman. If anyone wants to list the episdoe is here:

105: The Crime Analyst | Ep 105 | Joanna Simpson: A Miscarriage of Justice, Part 1

[Madeintowerhamlets]

@StarbucksSmarterSister

Me too. The link is here should anyone else wish to contact their MP.

https://action.jsfoundation.org.uk/help-keep-dangerous-killer-our-streets

Well done for doing the link!

[YouAreNotBatman]

@heathspeedwell

It's really frightening that so much male pattern violence is minimised. We should all be aware that men commit around 99% of sex crimes and over 80% of violent crime.

As women we instinctively know that men, as a class, are dangerous. And yet we are under so much pressure to be kind and to ignore our instincts.

Women are actively encouraged to prioritise the rights and feelings of men over our own safety, dignity and privacy. You see it all the time when it comes to sentencing men for violent crimes and murder. You see it often here on Mumsnet too, but in more subtle forms.

Forget having to be kind.

What I’m amaze by is that women STILL insists on getting into relationships with men, marrying them, having kids with them - havings sons!
And many women who know the statistic , still think it’s going to go differently for them.

It’s crazy how little self-preservation women choose to have.

[sawdustformypony]

What I’m amaze by is that women STILL insists on getting into relationships with men, marrying them, having kids with them - havings sons!

Constantly amazed? That must be a drain on your senses.

[Whaeanui]

@YouAreNotBatman

Forget having to be kind.

What I’m amaze by is that women STILL insists on getting into relationships with men, marrying them, having kids with them - havings sons!
And many women who know the statistic , still think it’s going to go differently for them.

It’s crazy how little self-preservation women choose to have.

What? This is ridiculous. So what are heterosexual women to do? Women who want kids? Who are with non violent decent men? This is quite a statement. It is different for lots and lots of women actually.