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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
nilsmousehammer · 01/05/2023 12:39

I'd think the 'following orders/policy' would come into it. Not to mention that rather than put individuals through legal hell on a one to one basis is less effective than taking a government department to task for the root cause: lack of clear policy.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/05/2023 13:04

RoyalCorgi · 01/05/2023 12:31

I have read the article but can anyone give me a better understanding of what the legal basis is to sue the DfE, as opposed to individual schools?

That's a good question. I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that they'll argue that the DfE should have put in really robust guidance that schools were legally obliged to follow, rather than just let schools do their own thing. In pragmatic terms, they'd have to sue a number of schools individually, which would be complicated and time-consuming, whereas suing a single body is easy. Presumably schools would also lack enough money to make a decent-size payout, though I imagine they have legal insurance of some kind.

I've got letters going back to 2018 where ministers stated that guidlienes would happen. I imagine the case will be claims of irresponsibility by the DfE for funding, promoting and allowing adult trans groups (with zero professional expertise) to influence education / pastoral care / safeguarding policy / practice along with professional "neglect" for failing to provide schools with guidelines that safeguarded children from these dangerous beliefs. And there's so much evidence that the DfE were openly challenged about this but hand waved it all away.

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 01/05/2023 16:47

Thank you - that's useful!

DOBARDAN · 01/05/2023 16:58

Good luck to the parents, it seems it is only parents who are concerned with safeguarding their children whilst at school
Shame on all those concerned in keeping such secrets from parents and promoting ideology to children in their care

LlynTegid · 01/05/2023 17:00

I wish them luck, guidance should have been issued as a minimum probably several years ago.

ResisterRex · 01/05/2023 17:01

RoyalCorgi · 01/05/2023 12:31

I have read the article but can anyone give me a better understanding of what the legal basis is to sue the DfE, as opposed to individual schools?

That's a good question. I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that they'll argue that the DfE should have put in really robust guidance that schools were legally obliged to follow, rather than just let schools do their own thing. In pragmatic terms, they'd have to sue a number of schools individually, which would be complicated and time-consuming, whereas suing a single body is easy. Presumably schools would also lack enough money to make a decent-size payout, though I imagine they have legal insurance of some kind.

And if the DfE isn't the correct respondent, they can argue that during the preliminary stages. I think?

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 17:06

They haven’t just been not telling parents. They have been teaching and promoting gender ideology especially through their outsourced provisions of RSE.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/05/2023 17:07

The DofE are massively responsible for this. The Tories have repeatedly put TWAW believers the position of Secretary of State for Education.

KCandtheSunlightBand · 01/05/2023 19:08

The civil service in the DfE are completely taken in by trans ideology. There have been many new SofS for Education and every time the new minister is appointed they hide the work that they have done and it has to be started again. The reason no guidance has been forthcoming is because the Civil Servants don’t want it to see the light of day.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/05/2023 19:14

KCandtheSunlightBand · 01/05/2023 19:08

The civil service in the DfE are completely taken in by trans ideology. There have been many new SofS for Education and every time the new minister is appointed they hide the work that they have done and it has to be started again. The reason no guidance has been forthcoming is because the Civil Servants don’t want it to see the light of day.

I'm sure that's right. They also write the batshit letters that ministers send out (without checking them properly. There are obviously some very dodgy people working there who probably should be in the dock.

SunnyEgg · 01/05/2023 19:17

KCandtheSunlightBand · 01/05/2023 19:08

The civil service in the DfE are completely taken in by trans ideology. There have been many new SofS for Education and every time the new minister is appointed they hide the work that they have done and it has to be started again. The reason no guidance has been forthcoming is because the Civil Servants don’t want it to see the light of day.

How far does the sentiment at The Guardian diverge..

Probably not by much

When captured it’s all over

stickygotstuck · 01/05/2023 19:44

Looking forward to finding out what comes off this.

@takethebullybythehorns , well done on taking control. Glad to hear your DD is back to herself.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/05/2023 21:54

KCandtheSunlightBand · 01/05/2023 19:08

The civil service in the DfE are completely taken in by trans ideology. There have been many new SofS for Education and every time the new minister is appointed they hide the work that they have done and it has to be started again. The reason no guidance has been forthcoming is because the Civil Servants don’t want it to see the light of day.

Why do you think this? What have the Civil Service hid?

Shelefttheweb · 01/05/2023 21:57

Wasn’t there a trans identified male senior civil servant who was doing the rounds of departments including DoE? Sorry can’t remember more.

PurpleBugz · 01/05/2023 22:03

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 17:06

They haven’t just been not telling parents. They have been teaching and promoting gender ideology especially through their outsourced provisions of RSE.

RSE you cannot withdraw your child from. My 7 year old has a book list in school I argue really encouraging transition. I looked up the provider and the 'who we are' photos were overwhelming trans looking.

All school policies say gender not sex.

I've had to tell my child not to say boys can't be girls at school because reading the school policies that's a 2 day suspension

Questionquestionqu · 01/05/2023 22:10

I am a teacher. I have taught a child who wanted to be known as a boy. I was told to refer to this student as he/him. I had no idea the parents did not know until parents evening, when I referred to the student as 'he', as I thought that's what the whole family wanted. It was awful. I'll be watching this case closely.

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 23:31

PurpleBugz · Today 22:03
I've had to tell my child not to say boys can't be girls at school because reading the school policies that's a 2 day suspension

That is particularly wrong. I wonder if you have thought of writing about all this at your DC’s school to Safe Schools Alliance, and also Miriam Gates, so as to add to their evidence?

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 23:35

I looked up the provider and the 'who we are' photos were overwhelming trans looking.

Which provider was that PurpleBugz?

PurpleBugz · 01/05/2023 23:37

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 23:35

I looked up the provider and the 'who we are' photos were overwhelming trans looking.

Which provider was that PurpleBugz?

Jigsaw

Ssa are aware of them I got a lot of info from their website. Who is Miriam Gates? What is she doing?

PurpleBugz · 01/05/2023 23:39

ScrollingLeaves · 01/05/2023 23:35

I looked up the provider and the 'who we are' photos were overwhelming trans looking.

Which provider was that PurpleBugz?

jigsawpshe.com/who-we-are

ScrollingLeaves · 02/05/2023 08:55

Thank you PurpleBugz · Yesterday 23:39
I checked out their ‘who-we-are’ and think you may be right about so many looking ‘trans’ though I can never always tell from head shot photos.

Jigsaw is included in the Safe School’s Alliance list of providers, and they do say they are problematic.

BonfireLady · 02/05/2023 13:41

PurpleBugz · 01/05/2023 23:37

Jigsaw

Ssa are aware of them I got a lot of info from their website. Who is Miriam Gates? What is she doing?

Miriam Cates is a Tory MP in the UK.

She is campaigning together with Rosie Duffield (Labour MP) on women's rights at the moment.

But specifically in relation to this thread, she raised the issue of what is being taught in schools in parliament and secured agreement from the Prime Minister that an urgent review of the materials and teaching methods is needed. She kicked off the increased level of awareness.

This is a great thread about it all as it includes a copy of the report that she submitted to parliament as well as the general discussion about it all.

Miriam Cates report on RSE | Mumsnet

Starting a new thread as this report is being discussed in others and I think it needs a thread of its own. Report available here: [[https://www.news...

https://www.mumsnet.com/index.php/talk/womens_rights/4759306-miriam-cates-report-on-rse

ResisterRex · 02/05/2023 13:57

One thing that's been odd about this whole issue is the lack of leaks to friendly press from the civil service, to defend their position.

There have been lots of leaks and "sources said x" about many other areas of disagreement. But on this topic, it's always been parents, teachers / governors who've been given their marching orders for not complying with the ideology, or MPs commenting.

Have I missed it, or has there never been a "sources at DfE defended the policy / the length of time" etc type of story? I've not seen one, and usually you can see things playing out in that way over other issues. But not this.

dimorphism · 03/05/2023 09:23

PurpleBugz · 01/05/2023 22:03

RSE you cannot withdraw your child from. My 7 year old has a book list in school I argue really encouraging transition. I looked up the provider and the 'who we are' photos were overwhelming trans looking.

All school policies say gender not sex.

I've had to tell my child not to say boys can't be girls at school because reading the school policies that's a 2 day suspension

That is outrageous. I'd say they are breaching KCSIE by imposing adult views on your child and restricting his speech. Those policies are wrong. I would make a complaint to governors and keep Safe Schools Alliance copied in to all communication.

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