CAHMS/SEN workshop worries. (TW)

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So DD is in Yr 9. She's on SEN register at school, waiting on autism referral, eating disorder ect.

We've had a lot of shit with her regarding gender identity. She's possibly autistic, very easily influenced and has sexual trauma history :(

School arranged for her to attend an art therapy course through a local charity and CAHMS.

There was the usual virtue signalling on the forms. Gender. Pronouns etc.

But I've just got the activity schedule for the project and the theme is 'Identity'

Would I be an absolute didk of I rang and asked them to clarify what that means and ask if 'gender identity' is going to be involved.

Because if it is she absolutely isn't attending. I'm sick to my back teeth of this bollocks being peddelled at vulnerable kids.

I would!

I absolutely would.

I absolutely would ask too. Don’t hesitate when it comes to your children.

It's a broad term isn't it but these days it seems like that's the only kind of identity that matters.

Any ideas on what I should actually say?

What’s the charity running the course?

I don't want to say as its a small local charity and would be too identifying.

They're just a small local, independent.

It's an art charity for people with SN.

Just say you need more information on the session . You don't need to explain why . If it becomes gender identity then you can just say. My child won't be attending. Her issues are not gender indenity .

As a parent of a child with autism.. i would do exactly this

But I feel they're very sly with parents.

I don't think they would come out as say that unless pressed. I was told by school directly they have many students who use different pronouns at school and the parents have no idea.
Its all so cloak and dagger.

Isn't inward looking 'identity' all part of the problem?

I'd pull her out of it anyway - even if they say it isn't it probably is.

I'll see what they say. Maybe I'll insist I stay for the opening session.

Urgh got myself all prepped to ring now and they don't even open till 10am.

Tricky. I have worked with similar kids and alongside therapists. "Identity" has always been an important aspect of understanding teens and therapists will definitely feel the need to cover it. It isn't necessarily about gender ID at all, I would say the problem is as simple as whether the therapists themselves believe in gender ideology or not.

The concern is that if they do believe, even if they think they are being neutral, they may ask questions which are actually quite leading to your DD such as "does your gender ID match your sex at birth" which obviously presupposes a belief in gender ID and heavily suggests that the only way to express discomfort with sex stereotypes is to say "no".

I would trawl the website of the charity and search for the therapists too if you can. By and large, believers in gender ID like to proclaim this loudly. Check the language and the equalities policies.

Before you speak to them, is it worth writing down points about why you don't consent for the therapists to talk about gender ID with DD? eg Family beliefs; acceptance of difference and homosexuality without needing to modify body; vulnerability due to SEN and trauma; inappropriate to be led on a path that can lead to medication, surgery and sterilisation as a child ESPECIALLY in light of her vulnerabilities; understand that teens often express trauma through gender stuff, please work with the actual trauma as transition is rarely the answer for a teen.

So I rang and spoke to a very nice lady I asked her what exactly does the project 'identity' entails.

She said home life, interests and anything else the kids want to incluse such as..gender identity 🙄

I explained all about DD and why I feel its not appropriate for ND teens to pushed into this discussion time and time again.

I said I wasn't sure if DD would be attending now, which is a shame because it's something that seems really up her street.

She is getting the woman who actually runs the course, who will be hosting and talking to the kids, to call me back.

So I will ask her opinions and see if I feel she is likely to bring this up.

Although I'm 90% sure it will be included because it's all the rage for kids to talk about isn't it.

I've just sat in the garden and cried.

Why can't they do literally any other topic.

They're kids for fucks sake.

Am now waiting for a call back from school. I'm going to ask them if DD is partaking in all this at school without my knowledge, as there have been a few hints from her HOY.

I am sick to the high teeth that CAMHS are still promoting gender identity even after the Cass review.

I would not allow my autistic daughter to take part in anything like this, she is vulnerable by definition.

I would say no, and clearly state why.

Someone has managed to get it on their child's EHCP that their child is vulnerable to gender identity and they are not to engage in any sessions which may make the child think they are trans gender.

This is so dangerous for vulnerable children.

I'd also speak to Safe Schools Alliance, and write to head teacher and chair of governors copying in your MP about your concerns.

Thankyou. I feel the same. It's really helpful to know I'm not alone in feeling this way.

My daughter has autism and began questioning her gender identity. She still likes to use a (nick)name that sounds gender neutral and she has short hair... Inevitably this prompts a "be kind" response from many people who meet her.

I created a safeguarding document (which was subsequently ratified by the GP and went in to my daughter's EHCP*) which laid down the guardrails for gender identity conversations. I did a lot of research and found that this was lacking.

The most "contentious" part of the document was how to safeguard when someone asks what pronouns my daughter uses. I did not want this question asking to her because the simple fact of asking it implies that she may not wish to be a girl. It's effectively the same as asking "do you think you're really a girl or would you rather not be?". Given the huge overlap in how autistic girls (generally wearing "boyish" clothes and being disinterested in gender) and girls who identify as boys present, I felt she was very vulnerable towards being pulled in to a belief in gender identity.

Through discussion with my GP, (parts of my original document were used as the basis of his EHCP submission), I modified this part of the document so that it was clear why asking pronouns was problematic. In my original document I had stated that health and education professionals "will not ask [name] 'what pronouns do you use?' ", but I did accept that I can't compell people to use or not use specific words. After discussion and the GP's input, I was able to add guardrails that still achieved the safeguarding that she needed and a commentary that explained why.

I use my own copy of the safeguarding document (not the GP's submission in the EHCP) for all appointments that we attend. If any education or health professional doesn't agree to it, she doesn't attend the appointment.

*an EHCP is the Education and Health Care plan that supports a child with special needs within an education setting. I'm assuming the OP will know this but others may not.

Small correction:
parts of which were ratified by the GP and went in to the EHCP
^^
I did correct this later down in the comment but didn't check what I had written earlier.

That is extremely helpful

DD also has short hair, wears trousers in school.

And I have just found out via teacher that she goes via a nickname with her peers too (a neutral nickname)

So that's incredibly helpful.

Teacher says DD does not use other pronouns or says she is anything other than a girl but her friendship group is heavily biased with trans and NB kids.

I feel like she's just trying to fit in with them cause she thinks they're cool. But I want her to stay authentic to herself.

bonfirelady that is absolutely brilliant, although obviously terrifying that it is necessary. Can I ask, was it difficult to get the GP to understand?

OP how awful that it seems as if this means your daughter may denied an intervention that could help her.

It was a difficult conversation to navigate but I was very fortunate that the (specialist paediatric) GP had a sound knowledge of autism.

The most important thing was that I remained objective. I personally do not have a gender identity (nor do I have a religion) but I respect that others do. As with religion, I draw the line on where the rights of an individual to practice their beliefs impact on others' rights.

With this as my starting point, and my own knowledge (through research and experience) of how girls with autism present, I effectively did my own differential diagnosis to support my daughter. For example, I supported her with distress at her periods and breast development through the autism lens. I didn't bring up gender identity, but nor did I "forbid" it. The GP was happy to follow this lead (he prescribed the pill to help her get a sense of control over her periods for example - it is very common for loss of control to external factors to be a trigger for autism) and over time, she no longer mentioned gender identity.