@AG247
I don’t know what “BHI” is so forgive me for ignoring it.
”First you said there is no Jewish ethnicity, or tried to dispute it by claiming that any science you had seen backed up a ‘lack of ethnicity’ - that Jews were just a religion.” No, I did not say anything of the sort. See screenshot. I said from the start of this topic that Jewish is both a race and a religion.
“Now you’re arguing that actually Jews descend from North Africa - which inevitably to you is sub Saharan Africa.” Yes the Jewish ethnicity originates in North Africa based on the studies that go the furthest back in time to date- 3,500 to 4,000yrs ago. But also no, I’ve not confused North Africa with subSaharan Africa.
“I have no issue with this on the face of things, however there is NO actual scientific evidence to back up such claim, which I’m sure you know well.” Actually there is quite a bit of genetic scientific evidence backing this up. I explained in another post that for some reason it’s been recent practice that a snapshot of where everyone was 2,000yrs ago can be called their “origins” when it comes to genetic studies. Obviously humans migrated around quite a lot before then and there are genetic studies that go back further than that.
“I can tell you the majority of jews do not have sub Saharan DNA. I do, for the simple fact that I am also mixed with indigenous North African DNA (Berber) and so have a sprinkling of West African dna - however this is not typical of most jews, and I don’t know why you’re claiming it is?”*
The DNA tests you are familiar with likely do not go back far enough in time. Most commercial ethnicity/ancestry tests only go back 200-500yrs ago as to where your ancestors were in recent centuries. Most scientific studies, target no further than 2,000 yrs ago- which is the time period of the studies showing the Levant as the ‘“origin” homeland. Only a few scientific studies go back further than that. All the studies are true, you just need to keep in mind what time period they are reflecting.
My comment regarding subSaharan DNA was based on a well known study which is even mentioned on Wikipedia- “In 2011, Moorjani et al. detected 3%–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations (Ashkenazi Jews, Syrian Jews, Iranian Jews, Iraqi Jews, Greek Jews, Turkish Jews, Italian Jews) that they analyzed. The timing of this African admixture among all Jewish populations was identical. The exact date was not determined, but it was estimated to have taken place between 1,600 and 3,400 years ago. Although African admixture was determined among South Europeans and Near Eastern population too, this admixture was found to be younger compared to the Jewish populations. This findings the authors explained as evidence regarding common origin of these 8 main Jewish groups. "It is intriguing that the Mizrahi Irani and Iraqi Jews—who are thought to descend at least in part from Jews who were exiled to Babylon about 2,600 years ago share the signal of African admixture. A parsimonious explanation for these observations is that they reflect a history in which many of the Jewish groups descend from a common ancestral population which was itself admixed with Africans, prior to the beginning of the Jewish diaspora that occurred in 8th to 6th century BC" the authors concluded. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
“Your comments suggest an ulterior motive or undertone which I have commonly experienced with BHI groups who use claims to diminish Jewish identity ethnicity and/or claim that we have stolen their identity. I hope I’m just mistaken, and if so, I apologise in advance.” Apology accepted.
“There is absolutely no historical data to back many of the claims you have made here on this sub, on behalf of Jewish people of whom I am certain you are not a part of.” *I would disagree. The Bronze Age collapse 1300-1100BC happened all around the Mediterranean about the time when the Jewish peoples left Egypt (North Africa) estimated at 1300 BC and per the covenant of Abraham, Moses leads the Jewish people to the “Promised Land” or Canaan (in the Levant) which Genesis clearly says is not their “native land” and they conquered and settle there (for which there is ample archaeological evidence of the Phoenicians being replaced by the. Kingdoms of Israel and Judah by the incoming Jewish tribes). This is known to have historically happened even if you don’t believe the Torah.
This migration to Canaan occurred over a thousand years prior to the time period most “origin” DNA studies look at including the ones that say Jewish and Palestinians are both from the Levant because the definition being used of where is an ethnicity from, is where were their ancestors 2,000 yrs ago not 4,000yrs ago or further back.
“We all originally (allegedly) come from Africa but this is not singular to Jews and does not take away from their ethnic and genetic makeup, of which the majority is shared between most communities.” Yes but that’s going back much much further to 50,000 to 70,000 years ago and shouldn’t be confused with where people were 2,000yrs ago compared to 4,000yrs ago.