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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

357 replies

ponderingsoul · 22/04/2023 11:31

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view.

Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

OP posts:
Floisme · 22/04/2023 18:27

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 16:49

We have an independent candidate on the ballot paper for the forthcoming local elections and I've just been through his election leaflet and it's the most appalling rubbish. Semi-literate ('I have wrote this letter to yourselfs ...') and uncosted election promises, one outright lie, and some bewildering nonsense about 'getting more local GPs and dentists for local people'.

Erm ... it's a local council, mate, you can't force GP practices to open and 'service local people' Confused

I hope others have better luck with their independent council candidates.

Fair point, that's almost as nonsensical as claiming 99.9% of women haven't got a penis.

Slothtoes · 22/04/2023 18:37

Hepwo Give over, that’s putting it a bit arse about face about how government consultation works, isn’t it?

The Tories consulted on self ID because they were getting pro-self ID pressure, yes. But it wasn’t as though they didn’t really want to bring in self ID and in secret the Tories really hoped that the women and the gay community would all write in and save them from havimg to do it.. that’s just not how it works.

What actually happened was, women had been raising the case against having men in women’s toilets, sports, and prisons with the government as an issue of female safety, privacy and dignity, for years.

Women said the legal justifying of excluding men from women’s spaces under the Equality Act was not widely understood and many places didn’t feel confident legally to do it. So EqA was not a sufficient legal protection for us. Lesbian culture and women’s services and spaces were being changed seemingly irrevocably without these legal changes. Women saying this were roundly ignored by the Tory Government.

And then Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence and whoever else was lobbying for the TRA, had at the same time been raising GRA reform with an eye to self ID and towards children under 18 being able to get GRCs and getting rid of the ‘spousal veto’ and whatever else.

Funnily enough the government then gave that TRA lobby… a full government public consultation on self-ID etc and the government made really positive comments about all this and the women that objected were called silly names and increasingly threatened.

The Tories also had to consult on self ID and getting rid of the spousal veto all the rest of it, because any process of law change to the GRA necessarily requires a consultation. They consulted on it because that is the first step to changing the law.

It’s quite wrong to imply that the government used that consultation as some sort of opinion poll (they’d already polled extensively and stilll wanted to go ahead!) or that it was great that they consulted because it flushed out loads of evidence. Firsly that is really not how they work and it also downplays the efforts of women making their case previously in the face of being ignored by the Tory gov and harassed online for speaking about that for years..

Result is now-under this government, no changes to EqA or GRA likely. The advent of £5 GRCs (when other government certification like immigration forms cost people thousands of pounds). And a Tory government who will do fuck all to change that situation forever if they can get away with never again touching this. because they’ve kicked this issue into the long grass realising it’s a toxic nightmare. But they can always then also hold it over women that they might do something more to help TRAs, if women MPs ask for too much in future. I’m not grateful for these crumbs.

And again, I’ll ask Tory voters what the government have actually DONE that’s been good for women? Deeds not words.

Noicant · 22/04/2023 18:47

For me the key consideration is once TW (and then by default all men) are given full access to womens and girls single sex services and spaces how exactly do you get them out again. Once it’s done it will be damn near impossible to undo. It’s easy to give enhanced rights to a group, it is extremely hard to take them away once they become the norm. I genuinely think theres a lot at stake here for the women.

I live abroad (I wasn’t clear in my Previous post)so I cannot vote but in this case yes I think being a single issue voter would be exactly what I would be doing and I would feel fully justified in doing so. I have never felt I owed any one party my vote and have voted green, lib dem, conservative and labour in the past. I really don’t believe any of them occupy some sort of moral or ethical highground at all.

Pieceofpurplesky · 22/04/2023 18:49

WhatTheHeckyPeck · 22/04/2023 12:28

No. The Tories may "know what a woman is" but they sure as hell couldn't give a fuck about them.

This with bells on.
A vote for tories is a vote to keep women down. Their 13 year rule has seen women lose pay, benefits and respect (from government). Get them out and then fight on the twaw

SpringNTing · 22/04/2023 18:49

I’ll never vote Tory. Ever.

Ive never had any time for the Lib Dems or Greens anyway, but both seem captured too.

I can’t vote for Labour currently, though (formerly a lifelong Lab voter).

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 19:00

Vote Tory if you want to, but don’t pretend you care about womens’ rights if you do.

Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?
Gingerkittykat · 22/04/2023 19:02

I am a former SNP and Yes supporter. The shitshow around Brexit has made me change my mind about independence and I won't be voting SNP or Green for obvious reasons.

I will never vote Tory or libdem so my only choice is Labour, I want the tories out of UK government and they are the best chance to get the SNP out in my area in the Scottish Parliament.

MopsySmithe · 22/04/2023 19:04

No way!

pieceofpasta · 22/04/2023 19:05

Cycleorrun · 22/04/2023 13:04

I will almost certainly vote Tory at the GE as long as they have clarified that sex means biological sex in the Equality Act. To be sure they mean what they say about women's rights. I can't believe I'm saying this! I can't even vote Lib dem as they are just as bad.

Maybe we need to stress to them that a vote is dependent on this being done.

WearyLady · 22/04/2023 19:11

No. I'm a long time labour voter but I've held my nose voting for them for most of this century - the Iraq war, Corbyn, fence-sitting on Brexit - but I'm not prepared to do it anymore. I'll be spoiling my ballot paper at the local elections in the hope that the message gets through to Labour that you can't piss women off on something as fundamental as 'what is a woman' and then expect them to engage with you on other issues.
I'm hoping there's time for them to sort out their stance on gender ideology before the general election. If they continue to deny reality they won't have my vote.

NotHavingIt · 22/04/2023 19:22

Slothtoes · 22/04/2023 17:07

Still hoping to hear of all the compelling positive things for women’s rights that has actually happened under this Tory government for women’s rights? Deeds not words. Can someone just outline their actual helpful deeds for women? Which they have been at liberty to bring to Parliament any time since 2010… what have they actually done for us?

The Tories have presided over this whole shit show, why do they deserve my vote?
Not long ago they were consulting on bringing in self ID.

There’s no safe gender critical party to vote for, honourable exception being the communists. Please tell me why on earth therefore I should be voting Tory if I care about women’s rights?

I'm not suggesting you vote for anyone but the fact is that the Conservatives blocked Self Id..... they also blocked the Scottish GRR; and they have also commisioned the Cass Review. Furthermore, Individual Tory Mps suppported Rosie Duffield in the chamber whilst she ws being abused by MPs on her own benches. Miriam Cates has been phenomenal, and Kemi Badenoch is a star.

Whilst you may not like their politics they have elected three women to the position of party leader. A record for Western democracies, maybe?

NotHavingIt · 22/04/2023 19:25

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 19:00

Vote Tory if you want to, but don’t pretend you care about womens’ rights if you do.

I'm not sure how old you are, but many of us here have been around long enough, and politically engaged for long enough to be able to make our own decisions.

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 19:33

Nobody's stopping you or indeed trying to stop you. The post begings Vote Tory if you want to.

anyolddinosaur · 22/04/2023 20:24

It's probably in my financial interest to vote Tory - certainly has been for many years. I've never done so. If anyone stands for the Other Party or the communist party I'll vote for them. For the first time in my life I will actually consider voting tory - if they have reformed the Equality Act to make it clear that sex is biological sex. If they havent done that I wont believe they are serious.

I've written -in small letters - comments like respect my sex and reform the equality act on my latest ballot paper and after the comment about names I've written on Kelly Jay Keen on my latest ballot paper.

Womens rights are a very important issue for me. It also makes me doubt both Starmer's intelligence and his ability to control his party. To set against that Sunak was responsible for eat out to spread covid and the mismanagement of the furlough scheme. He needs to get businesses to accept they benefited from that and now they need to pay more tax. Probably going to be another spoilt ballot paper come the general election.

JoodyBlue · 22/04/2023 20:37

The Labour party don't care about women's rights either. That should be patently clear by now. No party cares about women. Women need to build from the ground up. But for goodness sake they don't need the infrastructure that is self ID to demolish first. Make no mistake Starmer will bring it in, he is not averse and will be under pressure to do that. Politics has changed. If you can't see that then you haven't been following closely enough.

TinyRebel · 22/04/2023 20:42

I’m a Labour member and struggling with voting for any of our local sh*tshow. There are some absolutely vile TRAs in there and I no longer participate in the women’s forum because it centred the man in it 🙄and the woman in charge is a revolting handmaiden. I’ve tried in vain to have discussions in our CLP.
I only hang on in there so I receive the minutes and pop up to annoy them every so often with a sex matters petition or somesuch😂. Also I can vote and get involved on National issues and have made some lovely friends and contacts further afield.
It’s a shame really, as a. I used to love campaigning and b. Our Tory MP is useless so we should really be a shoe in.
I attended a local event recently and avoided the local Labour lot like the plague!

Fluffyhoglets · 22/04/2023 20:47

Hell would freeze over first before I voted tory. Despite labours stance on this.

JoodyBlue · 22/04/2023 20:48

Well fair enough. But you give Labour the green light then.

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 20:52

JoodyBlue · 22/04/2023 20:48

Well fair enough. But you give Labour the green light then.

At least Labour MPs aren’t seeking to reduce abortion rights or trying to take us out of the ECHR. I mean it’s a low bar, but still.

LangClegsInSpace · 22/04/2023 20:52

No. I've spoiled my vote for several years now but I've never voted tory and I can't ever see myself doing so. I'm quite far to the left and politically homeless.

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 21:20

I'm not suggesting you vote for anyone but the fact is that the Conservatives blocked Self Id.....

Theresa May MP (Con, former PM) was about to let it happen, until she was removed as leader of the party for another reason.

they also blocked the Scottish GRR

Because women like me had bust a gut at great personal cost to make it an issue that was being spoken about - and Isla Penis-Leggings just happened to come along at the right time. If it was left the Penny Mordaunt MP (Con) Leader of the Commons it wouldn't have got a murmur.

and they have also commisioned the Cass Review

Matt Hancock finally after around to this years after it was promised by Penny Mordaunt MP (Con), who replaced the review with a 'LBGT panel'.

Furthermore, Individual Tory Mps suppported Rosie Duffield in the chamber whilst she ws being abused by MPs on her own benches.

Not enough of them.

Miriam Cates has been phenomenal, and Kemi Badenoch is a star.

Yes. And? Actions are needed immediately. The Tories have been in power for 13 years. Labour are hopeless on this. Why are the Tories so lacklustre about actual actions?

Childrenofthestones · 22/04/2023 21:22

Oldnproud · 22/04/2023 12:01

Seriously, OP, you would join or vote for the party that has been in power for the last 13 years and actually allowed this situation to develop to where it is now? I really can't find the logic in that.

As bad as it is, on this subject, would it be better or worse if Labour had been in power since 2010?

Hepwo · 22/04/2023 21:27

Give over your self @Slothtoes

I can't be bothered to read your wall of text.

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 21:37

Hepwo · 22/04/2023 21:27

Give over your self @Slothtoes

I can't be bothered to read your wall of text.

That’s a shame because there are some very fair points there.

JanesLittleGirl · 22/04/2023 22:52

I wouldn't presume to tell anybody how they should behave in the ballot box.. I would make the point that voting is a right but not a duty so there is no constitutional failure in deciding that none of the candidates is worthy of your vote.

Casting a vote should be complex. The decision is multi-layered. Is it the candidate, the party or the leader? Is it their past record or their future promises? Is there a line in the sand that cannot be crossed?

Only you will know what answer you arrive at.

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