Is it acceptable (or legal) to take a video recording in an Unisex bathroom without seeking consent?

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

There's a video on social media where a woman uses an Unisex toilet for the first time in her life and appears both fascinated and concerned for women's safety at the same time.

She enters filming and interviews the men and women she passes. They smile and positively respond but this could be because of nervousness at having a camera pointed at them.

I have used Unisex toilets and have never had any problems. I would however take objection to someone entering and filming, and I would be reporting it to the store security and police.

Would think it's not acceptable to film other people in any bathroom, unisex or single sex.

I dont think it’s acceptable at all regards of type of public toilet

Oooh - a toilet thread 😂 Some people love talking about toilets .
Hope you've reported this to the relevant authorities OP?

I presume you mean in the UK, op? Hard to say if it's legal if you can't say which jurisdiction!

I don't think it's acceptable unless specific circumstances e g a crime is taking place.

Kansas City, USA

An empty unisex bathroom - no particular issue that I have thought of. People in a bathroom - no unless they had actively volunteered and were the only people there (so volunteered outside and entered to be filmed, not asked ‘do you mind?’ as they appeared from a cubicle).

I have no idea about US laws but if a changing room or toilets are mixed sex I don’t know how it is different than any other public space. Whoever made this a mixed sex space had already given away everyone’s rights to privacy and dignity from the opposite sex. It is a very interesting question OP.

As it stands I am absolutely against any filming in single sex spaces where men or women are sick, undressing or attending to bodily functions.

Removing sex based conventions on privacy, dignity and safety seems to remove any need for such niceties.

You mean the communal part of the toilet? Perhaps that would be classed as a public area, not a very nice thing to do but I wouldn't think it was illegal.

It is not illegal to film folk in a public space!

How do you think news coverage of rallies, football matches or tragedies would work? Two days of getting written permission from everyone?

not everything on YouTube is actually real, it can just as easily be a ‘set up’

Yes.

I would have thought inside a public bathroom would be different.

If you walk around there recording you would be catching people on camera as they enter and leave the cubicles. People should have a legal right to privacy to not be recorded in this setting.

I have taken photos in the washbasin area of a public mixed toilet. I asked everyone present about what they thought about the facility. None liked it and wanted to leave asap. None wanted to appear in the photos. It was a a way of getting opinions from a varied group and the photos just showed the complete stupidity and pandering that goes on .

Should public toilets put up 'no filming (unless its a crime in progress)' signs?
I wouldn't be happy about being filmed in one, and would at least appreciate being asked so I can get out of the way.

Maybe you should get this moved to the legal board OP? You'll get the legal response you want on there.

IANAL, but I think such recording would be illegal: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/kansas-recording-laws/

I have no idea about US laws but if a changing room or toilets are mixed sex I don’t know how it is different than any other public space.

Yes, I don't see how you can have this distinction. It's a public space in a way that a single-sex space is not.

In a female-only space "not being seen by men" is the point, so any filming breaches that directly by opening it up to being seen by men. There IS an expectation of that "no men" privacy there.

But in a mixed-sex space, anyone could be there anyway, so there is no expectation of privacy, same as any other space. There's nothing "private" about a communal mixed-sex area.

I have seen such signs, in my local council run leisure centre it has signs saying that the use of devices with a camera is not permitted with a picture of a smartphone and a tablet on the posters. Use of devices may result in being asked to leave and possibly barred from the centre.

Yeah, I guess this actually falls into exactly the same area as "no men". There's no law against it, but venues can have policies.

And the policy is then what enables law enforcement - someone breaking the venue's policy (no men or no filming) can be asked to leave by the venue, and if they don't they're trespassing.

But if the venue doesn't back you up on the "no filming", I don't think as an individual you could do anything. (Just as you can't do anything if they don't back you up on "no men").

Whereas if the venue had granted a single-sex spaces, you could have a direct legal claim to breach of privacy that doesn't rely on the venue, as you're not just being filmed in a public space, but one where you had an expectation of privacy.

People should have a legal right to privacy

Yes they should. Women are people too. HTH

Looping back to the OP:

I have used Unisex toilets and have never had any problems. I would however take objection to someone entering and filming, and I would be reporting it to the store security and police.

This directly mirrors the response to finding a man in a female toilet. If you take objection, you can report it to store security and police.

Store security would hopefully throw the man out. But if they didn't, the police couldn't do anything, because men in female toilets is not illegal. And it would be the same for filming in public spaces.

Someone cited that Kansas law, but I don't think it necessarily applies here:

For example, recording a person who is using a restroom is illegal because the person might be in a nude state and also because the restroom is a place where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

That is clearly assuming a single-sex or private "restroom", not a mixed-sex communal area. Someone would not be nude in such an area, nor I would argue they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That is the whole objection to them!

From TheBiology’s link, it seems to me that if you are recording openly and holding a conversation, then it’s probably technically legal. The restroom example in the link seems to be talking about concealed cameras or filming people in a state of undress without consent.

Whether it’s acceptable is a matter of opinion. If a reporter stood in a toilet, interviewing people as they came in, and made sure nobody was filmed that hadn’t consented, it’s probably okay. Not in good taste, perhaps, and I don’t see why the film couldn’t be taken outside the door, but doesn’t sound like voyeurism, from the description in the OP, just thoughtlessness.

they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That is the whole objection to them!

To be more precise - the person in question probably was expecting single-sex toilets with some privacy, and wants there to be privacy, but having chosen to use the mixed-sex ones, they now probably expect to find men there. They've been forced to lower their expectations, probably against their will.

The posters in the leisure centre say specifically devices may not be used rather than you may not use a camera because obviously you couldn’t be sure if someone was using a phone or a tablet what they were doing with it. So in these leisure centres you will be asked to leave for having a phone or tablet out in the changing rooms or toilets at all, no need to prove that you were taking photos.

A bit like how single sex spaces should be kept for the designated sex only because in the case of women’s spaces we can’t tell predatory men from men who feel that they have the soul of a woman and should be able to change with us but won’t behave inappropriately, mind you I would argue that any man who wants to be in a space intended for women to get changed or use the toilet is automatically behaving inappropriately whatever his beliefs about his soul.

Single sex spaces offer dignity and privacy for both sexes and for the female sex also offer safety. A mixed sex space which is open to the public is basically no different than any other mixed sex space, mixed sex changing rooms are no different than getting changed on the beach or at the poolside. You’re in public and so you will take precautions accordingly and not have the expectations of the benefits of single sex spaces.

Places that are open to the public are not necessarily 'public' spaces. Shopping centres, train stations, 'public' toilets, etc aren't 'public' spaces in the way being in the street is a public space. They can have rules and bylaws, and the owners can prevent certain activities or bar people from being on the premises.

Fuck me, toilets again?