Why do anti trans people support JK Rowling?

[TaylorMia]

I'm a gay detransitioner who stopped taking hormones simply because I ended up not liking the idea of being on hormones and getting surgery. My insecurities aren't gone, but there's been some freedom in not being nervous about the increase of cardiovascular issues from hormones. I was also aware of Rowling's comments and never thought of her as being against trans people.

Over the past few weeks though, I paid attention to a lot of the people following her on Twitter who support her most, and I noticed that a large amount of them don't agree with a single thing Rowling has said about trans people. Rowling is on record for saying that she has no problem calling trans men he/trans women she, supporting adults having fairly easy access to hormones/surgery, saying that she considers most trans people 'vulnerable' and even saying she knew a trans woman that she could barely see as anything other than a woman. In contrast, a lot of 'gender critical' people say the opposite of those things. They get triggered by the idea of calling a trans woman a she and vice versa, sometimes don't even use their legal names, mock their appearances, think that trans people don't have their own specific needs, and in some cases, saying that the mere concept of being transgender is a capitalistic 'white male' misogynistic scam that manipulates mentally ill people, and that even adults shouldn't be allowed to transition. You can deny it if you want, but I can safely say I have seen all of these things said in 'gender critical' Twitter and forums. The word disingenuous doesn't really cover the attitudes of people who say that the whole concept of being trans is bad, bigoted and a capitalist scam, while simultaneously saying "We aren't anti trans". I am fully against gender ideology, but seeing these people's sentiments made me realize they don't really agree with what Rowling has said.

They probably come at it from a 'free speech' point of view. People who hate certain groups usually like to claim freedom of speech.

Also I think you have a skewed view of what 'gender critical' means.

Obviously some / many people are both Gc and transphobic.

Some people are Gc, transphobic and v right wing.

Meanwhile many GC people will take the same stance as JKR, and be against any kind of non-civil engagement with or about trans people.

Following someone on Twitter does not involve the bolting in if some kind of tribal Uni-mind, or obligation to agree with or support every aspect of what someone says.

I never said what I think it means, I was just relaying that a lot of the people who use that title openly don't agree with Rowling's general sentiments about trans people.

Quite a lot to unpack there...

It's clear from listening to The Witch Trials of JK Rowling that she makes a distinction between genuine trans women (ie those with gender dysphoria who opt for surgery) and those men who simply slap on a bit of lippy and a wig, claim to be women and demand access to women's sports and women's changing rooms.

When she says she has sympathy for trans people and would march with them, support their rights etc, she's talking about the first group, not the second.

When you see GC people saying impolite things about trans women, they are almost always talking about the second group. That's because at least 90% of men calling themselves trans women fall into that second group.

Trans men are another kettle of fish - I'd say most of us feel sympathetic to trans men because they are, by and large, vulnerable young women who have been falsely led into the belief that they are really trans, as opposed to just lesbian, traumatised or unhappy with their own bodies.

I can like/admire/support someone without agreeing with every word they have ever said. (Whether or not this is true of JKR).

People might not agree with every single facet of her opinions, but they agree on the core point that “trans women” are not actually women.

There are plenty of trans identifying people that accept that fact too, it’s not like the trans side of the debate is unified in all aspects.

Over the past few weeks though, I paid attention to a lot of the people following her on Twitter who support her most, and I noticed that a large amount of them don't agree with a single thing Rowling has said about trans people.

you cannot possibly know everyone’s views on this from their Twitter bio or posts.

Nice goady title.

This

JK Rowling has a very moderate and kindly position on this (and still gets a lot of hatred for it, because people are weird).

Some people think a much more extreme position is the only self-consistent one, in either direction.

Have you tried asking the people who say/post those things rather than here?

Assuming you have no evidence to suggest they are the people who post here.

Or perhaps you think people who are critical of transgender ideology are all a hive mind and that this section of Mumsnet is the anti-trans hotbed some transactivists like to claim it is?

This is not meant to be goady - but you would have to find “anti-trans” people to ask your questions too. I, and many/most here are not “anti-trans”, but are “for-women”. There is a huge difference, so your question needs to be directed at the appropriate people.

Cross-post with @Faffertea !

There are loads of trans people who support Rowling that, by your definition, would be 'anti trans'.

Rowling is on record for saying that she has no problem calling trans men he/trans women she

Well turns out we are not a hive mind then.

I don't agree with my language being coerced
I don't use the wrong pronouns because it implies I believe in regressive stereotypes
I don't use wrong pronouns because the confusion they cause can have real world effects
I don't use wrong pronouns because it makes it harder for individuals to change their mind if they are socially transitioned
I don't use wrong pronouns because pronouns are sex based
I don't use wrong pronouns because they are for the ease of the speaker not the subject and they create too much cognitive dissonance for me to maintain long-term without mental exhaustion
Even if I try I forget and pronouns are meant to make speech easier not more difficult.

I know it's difficult for you to hear that we all have our own distinct thoughts, views and practices on the subject. We tend to put that down to choice and personality though rather than our special GC identity.

GC basically describes any human who believes sex is real and stereotypes are bad. That's a lot of people.
A larger group agrees sex is real but have differing views on sexism, stereotypes and gender roles.
I'm not going to agree with everyone in group one, let alone group two who are very different from me.
Shocking I know.

Why do you think people have to agree with everything a person says or thinks in order to agree with some things that person says or thinks.

I may, or may not, agree with everything JKR thinks on this or any other subject, but potential disagreement on some things has no relevance as to whether or not I agree with her support for women’s rights.

there is a prevailing attitude that unless there is total agreement on EVERYTHING, you can agree on nothing. Nuance and plurality of thought is being lost - or pushed aside.

Some food for thought OP.

I really like this kind of challenging question. It's the kind of debate - proper debate - that I would love to see playing out more openly. With grown ups in the room, listening to and talking to each other.

I have listened to several detransitioners' stories. I appreciate each belongs to an individual who has their own experiences but, as a general theme, none of it sounds easy. I hope you are able to speak to people in your life who can support you without judgement.

I think you are confusing JKR with a cult leader.

It used to be considered normal for individuals to have slightly different views on subjects and still broadly get along and support their right to speak.

As you rightly note, JK Rowling has a very moderate and quite compassionate attitude towards trans people (though she feels more strongly about women's rights and needs) Despite that she's been vilified, hounded and "cancelled" by the radical side of the trans lobby. People who feel similarly to her are appalled at this, and those who take a more handline view against the trans movement are too - defending her right to free speech and in opposition to those who've been attacking her

You're right though that she's become a bit of a figurehead for hardline anti trans people because of how she's been treated by the people they hate, not because she actually articulates or agrees with their own position. I don't think she chose this.

So what you're saying, OP, is that the 70-80% of the population that are in accordance with the idea that 'sex is immutable' are a diverse range of people with different views, some of which are expressed impolitely, and may even not be nice people?

Extraordinary.

Its the so called "Trans Rights Activists" that made JK Rowling a big thing, seemingly without even reading what she actually said. They seem obsessed by her.

I don't care what people want to call themselves, how they want to dress as long as it isn't against public decency, or stuff like that. I do if I ask for a female doctor I get one, that my daughters can play sports safely and fairly and that male rapists aren't locked up with vulnerable women.

Over the past few weeks though, I paid attention to a lot of the people following her on Twitter who support her most, and I noticed that a large amount of them don't agree with a single thing Rowling has said about trans people.

In today's febrile cancel culture environment maybe they are grateful for anyone who raises the issue and won't let the baying pitchfork mob shut them up.
If these people are as anti-trans as you say then by supporting JKR they are exposing themselves to views of someone who is not anti-trans, and may influence them to reflect and become more tolerant. If that happens then JKR would in effect be working for the betterment of trans people acceptance, and more TRAs should be appreciative of JKR's positive contribution.

JK Rowling is pro women, not anti trans. Even in this, mens / trans rights activists have to make it all about them. Which it isn't. It's about women. Their safety, rights and dignity. Maintaining women only spaces. That's it. No anti trans about it. Just pro women.

Good point . There is a fairly wide spectrum of beliefs among trans people. From those who go the drugs/ surgery path to those who think that's not needed because they have a gendered souls.

Some insist on new pronouns. Some don't etc
Personally I'm in agreement with JKRs take on people with gender dysphoria. Of course the whole trans movement isn't a scam. But there's a lot of scammers invested in it.