Inside the Guardian’s civil war over trans coverage - an american viewpoint

[IwantToRetire]

In early March, an internal memo announced a new working group on “equality and equity between women and men” that would “encourage open and respectful dialogue between those with differing beliefs and experiences.” The Guardian will hold an event on April 19 titled “untangling sex and gender.”

(much of the rest of it is a rehash of various articles already published but with a few extra titbits like the one above)

https://www.semafor.com/article/04/02/2023/inside-the-guardians-civil-war-over-trans-coverage

Also in a slightly more robust style is an article by Julie Burchill The Guardian has wrecked itself https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-guardian-has-wrecked-itself/

Or will they keep telling the great unwashed how they should feel about everything from breakfast to Brexit while the paper’s sales dwindle and their heads disappear further up their fundaments?

I certainly shan’t be observing any inter-hack loyalty while they make fools of themselves, as Owen Jones and his colleagues have thrown words like ‘fascist’ and ‘white supremacist’ at this magazine’s writers for too long. That The Spectator was one of the few publications of the time to stand against the slave trade while the Guardian filled its coffers from profits from that heinous trade is almost too poignant. Wrong side of history, anyone?

(This article can be read via the archive.ph/ web site by pasteing in the Spectator link)

The Grauniad has become a toxic symbol of censorship that's embraced a liberal-fascism oxymoronic (pointedly foolish) journalism that's increasingly alienating and losing the respect of its readers. The departure of Hadley Freeman was the most significant 'end of days' moment for me.

Oooh Julie. That was fab u lous.

Guardian and "equality between men and women"? Hahaha. Very funny. They should have saved it for next year's April fool.

Hadn't heard of Semafor. Interesting, although the view of the author was predictably American^^ and as such it looks like they missed the point the women were making entirely. I doubt they were doing this:

In my conversations with some gender critical journalists, I was taken aback by how comfortable they felt openly expressing their disdain for trans women and making broad generalizations about them as a group.

"telling the great unwashed how they should feel about everything from breakfast to Brexit"

Exactly why I stopped reading several years ago. I had been quite happy reading both the Guardian and Mail on line and coming to my own view. The Guardian became weird, about the time Corbyn became leader, and seem to think that their role was not just to inform you, but to inform your views. As if they were purveyors of a one truth. I found the lecturing too much.

If they are losing readers, as the article suggests they are, it will presumably be to right of centre media such as the Times and Telegraph - or (cheapskates like me) the Mail. Many of their better journalists have made similar migrations. This cannot be good for either the paper or for the centre-left. (Or indeed anyone. We ought to have a vigorous opposition. Journalists ought to be encouraging critical thinking and debate.)

RTÉ Irelands main broadcaster in Ireland is worse. They didn't even report on Barbie Kardashian or anything at all that doesn't favour transgenderism.
It is out & out state controlled sponsorship. And pro trans propoganda.

Despite Freeman and Moore’s departures, however, their wing of the debate is widely viewed internally as ascendant.

Good.

If they are losing readers

There's no "if". They are losing readers, full stop.

Circulation for 2020 = 132,341. For 2021 = 108,687. Part of a long-term decline.

They stopped publishing their circulation figures in 2022 and now make these available only to advertisers.

RTÉ have deliberately stuck their heads in the sand on this issue. Joe on Liveline is really the only presenter to sort of tackle the issue and remember how much trouble that caused last year, sent RTÉ scurrying everywhere to apologise.

The Irish Times has been like The Guardian in its coverage of women’s rights - very much of the opinion that the great unwashed need telling what to do by the morally superior.

I stopped reading The Guardian (and the IT) because I dislike hypocrisy and dislike being preached at (had enough of that from the pre-decline Catholic church in Ireland). In my opinion, Monbiot, Williams et el are just too smug to replace compelling/thoughtful/challenging writers like Moore and Freeman (and even Burchill).

I stopped reading the Guardian on this. It is a juvenile mess of a paper compared to twenty years ago.

The Observer is still good and has some critical thinking. The Guardian is awful. I am a left

Leftie that now reads the Telegraph because it has facts in it.

(Sorry pressed post too soon!)

I like the Gript on facebook! It has the facts not state controlled censorship like RTÉ & the rest. Sick of the pro trans propaganda.

@UtopiaPlanitia did you watch the tonight show last night?
There was a trans debate(pro trans propoganda brainwashing) My 80 year old mother was seriously pissed off this morning. Said it was completely trans rights, had a TW on, Billy Kelliher, a GAA rep & a spokesperson from the Countess who was completely shut down & out from the debate. She said it was pure pro trans propoganda.

I moved to the Times around the beginning of the pandemic, the Graun’s reporting was so hysterical and hyperbolic it was anxiety-inducing to read it.

The Observer is good and I still flick through the Graun Lifestyle section (mainly for the food writing) but their news output is dire. This week alone has seen a massive tranche of anti slavery stuff which is very shouty and finger wagging, and now it’s a lot of drama about the royal family.

Bláthan I missed seeing that, I’ll have a wee look on RTÉ Player and see if I can catch it. GRMA for letting me know about it.

I have been going to lots of different places for news these days since I stopped reading/subscribing to The Guardian - as you say Gript (and sometimes The Indo and The Irish Examiner) are the only Irish media covering women’s rights and the issues involved.

UK media is less niche and if The Guardian don’t cover things, there’s at least other media like Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times (admittedly more centre-right but at least they’re doing some journalism on the issues involved). And there’s been some coverage by The Observer, which is better than nothing, but I wish The Guardian hadn’t ceded the journalism space on this issue. I’d like to see proper analysis from the Left, and so far, apart from Guardian journalists who’ve moved to other papers, we just have The Morning Star and Communist Party of GB applying material reality to women’s rights.

@UtopiaPlanitia, it was The Tonight Show on Virgin Media One yesterday, Sorcha from The Countess and Stella O'Malley were on it, loads of complaints about bias and interruptions on Twitter.

The Tonight Show 5th Apr

https://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1643716251682783233
https://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1643740631632601090

Love this at the end of that semafor article:

At the heart of Britain’s gender wars is Mumsnet, a sui generis parenting website where the backlash took shape, Katie Baker wrote in Lux.

(I had to look up sui generis, because I'm just an ordinary pleb, not a super duper educated liberal - it means unique. It's also the name of one of the most influential rock bands in Argentina's history, for anyone who cares.)

The link to Katie Bakers' article is behind a paywall, but in the summary it say that Mumsnet is where this 'anti-trans radicalization' all started. Yawn.

Who knew a bunch of women getting together and talking about our rights was so scary.

Thanks very much Genesis - I’m dreadful at remembering the titles of telly programmes (and, lately, albums, books, and films) so I just assumed it was on RTÉ - thanks for the clarification and the link 👍😊

I suppose they think of Mumsnet as unique and bit scary because a parenting website is supposed to be downtrodden mums looking for advice on nipple creams and such - it couldn't possibly be full of smart women who aren't afraid to have an opinion and aren't going to go quietly.

How dare we have radical ideas about upholding our hard fought rights and spaces!?

I think this kind of broad statement is not wort the paper it is written on. In this day and age, some people consider that saying 'TW should not use women's spaces and be in women's sport' as expressing disdain. When such broad accusations are made most people will imagine some sort of actually unpleasant statement (e.g. the oft quoted "you're saying all TW are predators"). It is in the interests of gender ideologists to use the undefined idea of 'disdain' in order to obscure what is really being said. Personally, I don't think all TW are predators. But like all men, some are and like all men, many, many more are than presents in the female population. If someone said they all are, I'd consider that to be disdainful. TWANW is not disdainful and it's not helpful to describe that as a 'broad generalization'. Without more detail, that was not worth printing.

It's just silly, isn't it? Where it stared was centuries ago when women became aware than men were treating them like shit. That's when our refusal to negate our rights and needs for male contentment started. It's not something I'm going to apologise for.

From the paper that gave us the Guardian Women's Page and Jill Tweedie.

That Semafor article is very strangely written, like the journo just published his notes unedited and unstructured.

If anyone really wants to read The Road to Terfdom piece, there's a link to it here. The content seems pretty crazy from a quick skim, but kudos on the title.

Also, not really related, but Nina Power wrote a piece for the American Compact Mag site called Welcome to TERF Island, profiling some UK feminists, including Suzanne Moore.

By the time you find yourself on site called Mumsnet you probably already have an inkling that there's some pretty major differences between men and women.

the real question is how you get radicalised into a new topsy-turvy turvy ideology, which overturns the everyday evidence of your own experiences. Believing what's you've always believed isn't radicalisation, radicalisation is suddenly believing 180° opposite.

When I put on my tin foil hat i blame Xi and Putin. Because if you can make people believe this you can make them believe anything.

Nina Power wrote a piece for the American Compact Mag site called Welcome to TERF Island, profiling some UK feminists, including Suzanne Moore.

I think I must have misremembered who Nina Power is / her politics. Although her article starts out as being quite interesting it just dwindles into lazy promotion of individuals with media credentials. ie totally bypassing the fact that a lot of pushback against trans ideology has come from grass roots women.

Media feminists have just used much of the work of women's campaigns, including those challenging schools as lone individuals.

The Guardian of course if infamous for turning feminism into the special interest of approve women writers. That in itself is anti feminist, and the most sucessful women's campaigns have come about through women working at grass roots level.

But I suppose that is part of the tactic of not wanting women to be empowered, but to imply only very special women who the male media approve of are listened to.

It's also indicated by the way mumsnet FWR is written about. MSM will quote or use as reference totally out of the loop tweets, but never for instance reflect discussions here.

In fact, although it indicates how manipulative they are, its a sort of compliment. They obviously fear women coming together and thinking for themselves!