LGBTQ…Z

[ChristinaXYZ]

Apparently the Z is for Zoology

"In this essay, I draw the discourses around bestiality/zoophilia into the realm of queer theory in order to point to a new form of animal advocacy, something that might be called, in shorthand, loving animals. My argument is quite simple: if all interdicts against bestiality depend on a firm notion of exactly what sex is (and they do), and if queer theory disrupts that firm foundation by arguing that sexuality is impossible to define beforehand and pervades many different kinds of relations (and it does), then viewing bestiality in the frame of queer theory can give us another way to conceptualize the limitations of human exceptionalism. By focusing on transformative connections between humans and animals, a new form of animal advocacy emerges through the revolutionary power of love."

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/abs/lgbtqz/85A2B98B6708318C7C7DAAE40D15D4C9

When the backlash comes, ordinary gay men and lesbians are going to get caught up in it if there is not greater support for movements like the LGBA, that are without the TQ+. Having fought for their rights for so long this is so unfair on them, this forced teaming.

And actually ordinary transmen and transwomen who have been minding their own business for decades till the kids came along to 'woke' everyone up, they too are going to get caught up in a backlash unless they separate themsleves from the extremes of the TQ+ ideology.

DemiColon · Today 22:56

Removing culturally mediated taboos will almost always result in many more people doing the thing that we don't want them to do. But it's been a weird thing on the left for a long time, this idea that giving up certain taboos won't affect basic behaviour patterns. It's weird given how constructionist they can be in other areas.

You’ve put that, and all your post, so well. Thank you.

At this point asexual people are the most normal.

Ditto (well I'm a Mum and she's 8) but yes surely surely SURELY this has jumped the shark now!!?

She has always been a lesbian and is now in her 50’s. I know the issues she’s faced because of her sexuality and her politics She is not now and never has been interested romantically in men. I don’t think she cares about the physical sex. The trans woman is in a relationship with a man.
I could tell her she is bisexual but it doesn’t cover it because even though the sex might have been ,she is not heterosexual. I think bi refers to people that are attracted to either sex. She really only fancies women but just enjoys dirty sex, for want of a better term.

I mention her well paid city job to show that she’s a busy, intelligent, capable woman. She’s not a damaged sex worker or someone at home a bit bored.

I am very much of the trans women aren’t women line myself and can totally support lesbians who want lesbians to be actual women. It just hard to discuss with my friend who lives under the “queer” umbrella.

I'm in Germany, and I call bullshit.

What I don't understand is why people think queer ideology had ANYTHING to do with LGB or even T..
The LGB and T are quite clear in terms of what sexuality is. Yes the T is confused in some ways about reality and sex.

How and why did the Q and the + ever get tagged onto the end?

The paper is quite right in that IF we accept queer ideology the Q has to come first. But if it does there are no boundaries and we cannot say what lesbian or gay sex is. And if that is so, surely it renders those terms obsolete?

people who pursue recreational sex a lot, especially if they are always looking for transgressive thrills, often find they have to keep ramping things up to get the same effect, which can be dangerous and push people into some pretty disgusting stuff. It's not a healthy sexuality. That can include sex with both sexes, but actually I agree with you, it's not really about sexuality in the way most people think about it.

The idea of someone who at 50 is still so focused on attaching her identity to pushing boundaries, no matter what they are, is a little odd though, most people grow out of that by about 25.

She can label herself queer all she wants but she isn't a lesbian if she wants 'dirty sex' with men 😂

@HolyShmoakes . Which is fine but as a heterosexual woman I’m not sure I can tell her about being a lesbian when all her romantic relationships have been with women and she identifies as female.
Her response has always been that she can’t see the difference between a real penis and a rubber one.
Lots of gay people will have had heterosexual sex but they would still say they were homosexual rather than bi.
The only other lesbians I personally know are woke 20 year olds who say things like “it’s the person you fall in love with , not the body”. I’m not a lesbian so again I’m not sure I’m entitled to tell the community how to view their sexuality. It’s up to the gay community to make a stand on this really.

.Sex ( the act) is more complicated than banning men from sport or single sex spaces. I do agree it’s can all get a bit extreme but if it’s consenting adults it’s legal. I just can’t argue about trans people with her because her lived experience is miles away from my theoretical stance.

"Her response has always been that she can’t see the difference between a real penis and a rubber one."

Then she's not a lesbian. Real lesbians absolutely have that that as a red line.

Well that’s not going to wash coming from me, a heterosexual. She’ll just laugh. To be honest I’m not sure she cares who labels her as what. That’s the point of queer I guess.

Yes, lack of boundaries and lack of care or respect for other people's boundaries and the impact of all this lovely self expression is at the root of this. Everyone's inalienable right to swing their arms around ends at someone else's nose.

If she's happy being queer why appropriate lesbianism if that's not what she is?

And just because you're straight it doesn't mean you can't call her out on things that simply aren't true.

Exactly, all she is doing is diminishing lesbians boundaries by standing up and saying 'I'm a lesbian who has sex with men'

It's disrespectful.

Why she? Me or the article writer?

I have linked it because adding the TQ+ to the LGB is a result of queer theory and this is an example of the boundary breaking down that is a core part of query theory - breaking down boundaries is a feature, not a bug. What is niche one minute you can have a campaign for great visibility the next. Drag queens where niche five minutes ago. And breaking down children's boundaries by increasing their exposure to things beyound the facts of into highly sexualised material at school would have been unthinkable when I was training to be a teacher in the 90s. Much of the stuff we see reported now would have got you sacked then. So here is another example of boundary pushing. Like many people, I beleive queer theory is dangerous because boundaries are what keep the more vulnerable members of society safe: women, children, the disabled and in this case captive animals.

Very serious accusations thrown around with no solid proof.

Great Post @DemiColon

It seems insane to me that if you are not heterosexual you are somehow lumped into the same category as every pervert in the world no matter how weird or sick their fantasies are. How can that be?

Ask Stonewall and their likeminded friends and groups.. They decided to stick everyone that wasn't heterosexual stereotypical gender conforming people under the letter 🌂. Then added acceptance without exception into it. Then screamed no debate at us for a few years.

Essentially LGB have been repurposed and used, without the faintest conscience, as a trojan horse. This is a political movement that takes whatever it wants, breaks it up and uses it for parts for its own purposes. There isn't an ethic anywhere.

The emotional fallout of this is going to impact so many lives for decades.

All those people when it dawns on them that effectively they have been supporting their own erasure.

Trojan horse is exactly it. LGB are sexual orientations, can that be reclaimed without all the other shit that are not?

Various groups are trying (and being branded Nazis for it!)

LGB Alliance
Lesbian Strength
The Lesbian Project
Get The L Out
Gay Men’s Network
Gays Against Groomers

are a few off the top of my head.

We will be damaged by it. We were the outer shell that had the utilisable political structure, the public image and sympathy, the wedge laws that could be exploited.

When the pendulum swings back, as it inevitably will, and the further the activists shove it to extreme, the further it will swing back, and the world goes stop shoving your bits and your sexual jollies on non consenting others and trying to normalise the unacceptable abuse of others? There will be plenty to tell LGB people 'it was because of loosening up boundaries for you that others were able to exploit this, it's all your fault'.

In exactly the same way you can always find a man, particularly in comment sections of newspapers and with drink in hand boring you to tears at parties, to tell you that this abuse of women and being raped in prisons and losing rights is all the fault of women for getting out of their box and wanting equality in the first place, and not to come crying to him that now they're reaping what they sowed.