The old Vic loos

[SleekMamma]

Has anyone been since all the loos went anyone goes anywhere?
Like what would happen if someone was to print out a ladies/ gents sign and happen to stick it on the doors to the loos. Theoretically speaking

I have been. The q for “toilets with cubicles” was all women except my poor son who was mortified but needs a cubicle. It’s a crap situation that doesn’t work for the vast majority

I don't go to the Old Vic because of this - and I really wanted to see Sylvia. They do have a very good programme there so very frustrating.

I haven't been back since they did this, and I used to see performances there a lot. I'd like to see Pygmalion but I don't want to visit a venue and give them my money when they've made it very clear they don't respect women's safety or privacy.

I went to Cabaret at the Playhouse last year. In the unisex/ex men’s the urinals were NOT screened off. The middle aged men (its theatre, have you seen the prices?) using them were mortified I went in there (I had not in fact realised it used to be the men’s, I was in extremely early at the break). I’d been to the “used to be the ladies” before the break and some bloke had pissed all over the floor, it was swimming. Not by accident clearly, I assume either for sexual kicks or to spite the women. The women were all queuing for the “used to be ladies” at the break. The men went into the “used to be men’s” while a (male) member of staff tried to persuade the women to go into the ex men’s, without success. The fact they’d rather queue for 10 minutes in the break should tell you what women want and it’s not unisex loos. Theatres need to consider their patrons’ want and needs, rather than the ideology of their staff.

in my experience, unisex loos means urine all over the seat. Why should women have to clean this up or (shudder) fail to see it and sit in it?

You mean criminal damage?

I think there’s a discrimination case waiting to happen here. There are discriminating against anyone who can’t use unisex toilets for religious reasons or because of trauma and they haven’t done safety risk assessments for those who made need assistance if ill but don’t use the disabled toilet. When people are unwell in the theatre they usually head to the toilet. No one would be able to rescue anyone if they collapsed in the toilets as the door opens inwards and there is no door gap for visibility or for access. No one would be aware. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Not the gotcha you think it is. There'd a much better way to open up more space for women and it's called potty parity legislation - I'm other words requiring the degree of provision for women that results in equal wait times. Commonly thought to involve a 2:1, 3:1 or even 4:1 ratio of stalls. Funnily enough this type of laws exist in reactionary backwaters like Texas and suchlike (albeit passed before they turned all repug), but hardly anywhere in Europe.

The type of setup OP describes opens hardly any additional stalls to women - the men's haven't got many - but lets all men access female spaces. Potentially worsens wait times.

@SleekMamma good for you. I did the same at a different theatre as the used to be men’s were closest to my seat. Like you I think the men were a little surprised.

Well I had a good chat with a manager after the show about it.
She claimed they had done a survey and everyone was fine with it.
I said not a single person in the audience wanted mixed sex toilets if they had surveyed that night.
People were talking about it in the audience and complaining.

I honestly don't think they care. I think they have drunk the kool aid and think they are being inclusive.

I hope that manager has to sit on a pissy toilet seat, she may change her closed mind.

Important that if someone parrots out their pre programmed twattery about 'it's more inclusive' that you point out, clearly and preferably in writing, that no, it isn't, this is a lie.

It excludes and discriminates against women from minority faiths and cultures, with disabilities, with trauma, with a history of CSA/DV/DA and women who just plain require dignity, privacy and safety.

This is just making women's spaces inaccessible to stroke the egos of male people. The 'this is inclusive' is batshit. Make them justify it. They won't be able to without explaining that men's wishes matter more than women's rights.

She claimed they had done a survey and everyone was fine with it.

Lol, bullshit. Or they only surveyed their "LGBTQ network" or something.

I'm increasingly seeing this movement as being those who live in an alternative reality and insist the emperor looks absolutely marvellous as he dances around stark bollock naked, with everyone else looking back at them going wtaf are you on?

They’ll care when they have experience of someone being unwell and coming to harm behind a toilet door. I trying to put this as ‘ungraphically’ as possible: in my experience the images and smells stay with you. There’s also the logistics of how to access inside these toilets if the door is locked and blocked from inside, even if you know they were unwell. From the manufacturer it doesn’t seem very easy at all. Those feelings of helplessness won’t be great either. But again, to be charitable, it’s not something people think of straight away unless you deal with safeguarding/have personal experience.

Obviously prevention (single sex toilets with door gaps and easy accessibility) is better than cure (redoing the posh enclosed toilets) but obviously their ideology overrides safety when they are saying nobody has complained.

So 51% of the population (the females obv.) must sit on or try to clean with loo roll pissy loo seats, so that 0.5% of male bodied people can feel validated. No misogyny no sirree and all the women are happy and all the middle aged men who now have the occasional woman in their loos while at the urinals are happy. Liars. Or is it the skewed survey? “Should the Old Vic be gender inclusive” rather than “are you happy to share loos with men”?

At a phenomenally posh event i was at i was talking to someone i know who is on the board at the Old Vic. 2 women at the same table said with one voice 'can you sort out those bloody toilets'. So my guess would be that they aren't asking, or else that they are doing an Edward Lord on the results by binning any responses from women over 40.

If they asked for a show of hands before every performance, they might be quite surprised by the results. Or tell dissenters not to come back.

The people who run the Old Vic really ought to read this thread. They'd probably just ignore us, though.

They are just ignoring us. I noticed an ad for A Christmas Carol at the Old Vic today and surprisingly it still has tickets. I nearly booked up for a family pre Christmas outing as a recent trip to the theatre reminded me how much I love the theatre but I just didn't fancy spoiling my evening navigating mixed sex loos.

Same here. I was going to book that show and decided against it for the same reason.

Is there a list of which venues have these ridiculous toilets? Just so I can avoid them.

Was at the Old Vic a few weeks ago with teenage son and daughter. I was not happy with the toilet situation, but, as I am a coward, just complained quietly to myself in my head. However, teenage son NOT HAPPY AT ALL and complained loudly about the toilet situation in the bar in front of everyone 😊

(I also filled in their survey which they sent a few days later and made my feelings known. Whether they'll ever listen to the general public, I don't know ...)

Well done to your DS!
Can you imagine working there - they must get tired of listening to the moans. When we went by it and people were queueing up, a man with the tone of Brian Blessed was shouting to the punters what they weren’t allowed to do once the show had started. Dd said ‘you WILL enjoy yourselves’ rather too loudly!

Ah apologies to the Old Vic, I have just remembered that last story I posted was about the Playhouse ‘Kit Kat’ club - wrong theatre but equally gender neutral loos.

Maybe she doesn't want to use the mixed sex toilets?!