Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

[PlanetLuna]

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

Sure, and my last post.

Julie Bindel smiling and having her photo taken with The Heritage Foundation.
Kathleen Stock discussing with people on twitter that hanging out with an anti-choice campaigner is fine.
JK Rowling praising Matt Walsh's transphobic and extreme right wing film saying 'you make some good points' in front of her millions of followers. This can all be easily found on twitter and probably elsewhere.

How do I know this and why do I care? I'm a lifelong feminist and anti - fascism campaigner, utterly horrified at the overlaps of transphobia/right activity that are happening. I'm also someone who was a bit sucked into the views of Germain Greer 20 odd years ago, uncritically nodding along to her transphobic chapter. Luckily it didn't last long, but it's why I noticed when those same views started popping up on here a few years ago - and of course all across the mainstream media. Anyway, the most feminist and genuinely gender critical spaces are the fantastic, progressive and feminist/LGBTQ spaces and I will standing in solidarity with my trans feminist friends.

GC means reject the gender norm op

What part of that don't you get when you mistakenly assert that gender critical people want to enforce a gender binary

Honestly, the absolute brass neck of accusing gender critical feminists of being far right adjacent when trans activists are literally showing up to protest at women's rights events wearing balaclavas and armed with weapons.

We in the usual upside down land. This is nonsense, based on nothing but incredible reaches of what was actually said We're getting to the point where just any old mud is slung, never mind whether it has any bearing to reality.
This is why a separate board is not only a bad idea but just won't work.
I can see why non-GC want a space where they can make whatever ridiculous claims they want and not be challenged, but that's not MN.
If you want to find a place where you can stay in your own little bubble, spout spurious accusations and everyone nods along, try a private Facebook group perhaps. A public forum with a culture of strong debate wont give you that.

photo taken with who at the heritage foundation?

please supply links.

Its funny that those who dont want to talk about being gender critical and want more "general" feminist discussions dont in fact join threads that are posted where they could do that.

Without in any way claiming that no one else is doing this, here is a list a threads I recently started (note to self maybe too many!) which aren't about trans identity, and I dont remember seeing any of those complaining about GC feminism dominating this forum contributing.

Funny that, it might seem like they are looking for threads they can take offense to.

All of those complaining they are hemmed in and unable to have feminist discusions please feel free to add comments to any of these:
Rape cases in armed forces double in two years
Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse
Asleep at the Wheel: An Examination of Gender and Safeguarding in Schools - Policy Exchange
Feminist Women International - newly formed group
Berlin welcomes topless female swimmers in victory for activists
Don’t politicise Relationships, Sex & Health Education, 50+ VAWG experts warn
Not just the Met: Fury as Kent Police class rape and sexual assault as 'non-emergency' crimes
New study finds that by the time people reach 26 they do realise that their mum was right
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown defends Fiona Bruce
3 March 2023 17:30 ~ Vigil for Murdered Women – For Women Lancashire
Putting Lesbians Back in Focus - one day workshop by new group the Lesbian Project
Minimum age for marriage raised to 18 from 16

But you are hanging out here with a bunch of apparently 'far right' extremists [women who believe in the existence of biological sex].

So what does that make you?

@PlanetLuna I didn’t insult you! Gosh you are very defensive for someone who started a thread on a board to insult it! Which you absolutely did. I didn’t criticise the fact you like to go specifically to boards and debate from a different viewpoint, as I said, I think though that a message to MN posted here to the whole board while complaining about the women here is quite obviously done to provoke people. I don’t think you understand the difference between differences of opinion and insults. Your comments to @jeffgoldblum were really nasty actually, I’ve disagreed a lot on that board but never resorted to that, and you also were the one to raise that silly ridiculous accusation about Camilla being accused of doing a white supremacy gesture, as Posie Parker was also. You remember me defending you don’t you? Despite it being a horrible thing to spread, I was the one calming the situation down and giving you the benefit of the doubt it wasn’t deliberate. Maybe I was wrong about that.

If you just want people to validate your views, go onto Twitter and follow some TRAs and tell them that the feminists on Mumsnet are being mean - you can call us feminazis so they know you're not TERFy.

🙄 that is so old fashioned

it's Feminazgûl now, thank you

Ah. So no evidence of far right . Just name dropping and say so.

Sounds like the usual.

@PlanetLuna

So what you (and others here) really want, is a board where you can start discussions about GC views and right wing issues — but without any actual GC feminists popping in to correct you when statements are made like “GC feminists want to police women’s bodily autonomy” or “GC views are right wing”?

Sounds - not very reasonable, really.

Wow 23 pages and only started this afternoon

And this is JK Rowling quite publicly telling Matt Walsh to back off because he doesn't understand the issue.
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1546141988139016194
We do actually read these things for ourselves, you know.
Although loving the claim that Julie Bindel is somehow right wing because at some point she had her picture taken next to someone 🤣🤣🤣. That's given me a right laugh.

Thank you @Whaeanui , you and I don't agree on some subjects 😉, however we can debate without personal insults.
On this subject we do agree!
Women's rights should never be used as a vehicle to start a bunfight on Mumsnet.

Just to make it clear here, the post @PlanetLuna asked to have removed was her spreading a claim from Twitter that Camilla had performed a white supremacist gesture- the ‘a ok’ sign! Like Posie was recently. She did say it was ‘probably rubbish’ but given the threads on the same thing happening to Posie here, not sure I’m convinced anymore actually, @jeffgoldblum what do you think?

the most feminist and genuinely gender critical spaces are the fantastic, progressive and feminist/LGBTQ spaces

How is it 'gender critical' to say we are on a spectrum between Barbie and GI Joe?

How is it addressing stereotypes to say that if a girl likes football, short hair and - gasp - other girls that she might be in fact, male?

Reddit? They seem to favour ideology over biological reality over there.

@jeffgoldblum yes absolutely. How boring life would be if we all agree but I don’t remember me telling anyone on the royal boards to fuck off when we disagree, nor you!! you were very good natured about it! And no I wasn’t the one that reported it. I think MN were watching the thread

Because many people agree that what she is doing is far more powerful than accepted feminism.

The feminism of universities the feminism of the Women's Equality Party, the Feminism of NGOs, simply doesn't reach ordinary women.

I have tried hard to get involved in that feminism but it's competitive, sharp elbowed, heirachical, dependent on academic ideas and publishing and very very narrow in it's acceptable range of opinions.

It's not accessible. That's not feminist to me. I have left the modern industrial feminism movement because it's selling poor quality stuff.

Yes @jeffgoldblum, you are correct.

I told you exactly what I thought of you in no uncertain terms the other day. That was because you kept poking at me because of something unrelated to you that I posted on a different thread. Sort of how you’re doing now.

I did however apologise to you for all the cursing. 😏

@Whaeanui , I'm in complete agreement, I too felt bad for the poster and gave her the benefit of the doubt, however, having all her posts removed, and changing the narrative is extremely incriminating and now I think all done to stir trouble!

I am grateful someone posted this article yesterday as it has given me a better understanding of some sorts of feminists.

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?post_id=112245546
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?isFreemail=true&post_id=112245546&publication_id=65949

@jeffgoldblum so you and I go out of our way to give her the benefit of the doubt on two separate matters and yet here she treats us with total disdain, and now trying to completely change the narrative both with the way she spoke to you and the Camilla white supremacist slur…. Not cool, not cool at all.

Explain how please, rather than simply throwing around wild allegations. Provide specifics.

And @jeffgoldblum was NOT ‘poking’ they made a valid point about the way you post and were very gracious despite the awful post you directed at them. I cannot understand how you’ve completely changed the narrative.