Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

[PlanetLuna]

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

Mad innit?

Loads of us have teenage children who identify as trans whom we dearly love, we just think getting one’s tits amputated before the frontal cortex is properly developed (and thus the ability for long term thinking is formed) isn’t a great idea.

@Helleofabore Hey ilovemyspace

You know, if you go off and do the research for yourself and it makes you really consider what is going on. That is really all that any poster on these threads can ask for.

Your work is done! 😂😂

But, seriously, Thank you! x

Look you can't expect the menz to actually read and digest what the silly Mummies have actually written, can you?

No, no, it's far easier to just smear the entire board comprised of lawyers, doctors, midwives, SAHMs, and the multitude of other highly articulate, clever and reasonable women as 'anti-trans' rather than engaging with the evidenced argument.

Of course, what you don't get on here is people just agreeing with you. I'm betting most people have had their arses handed to them at one point or another.

If someone beating you in an argument is something that makes you feel 'unsafe' real life is going to be hard.

😂

Thank you for clarifying.

How about people who believe in reality are allowed to believe in reality on any part of the site, rather than shuffled off to one bit in the feminism section, despite not being a feminist.

I’m not gender critical. I just paid attention during my biology O level. And have eyes, ears, nose. Am a product of ancestors who survived in part cos they could tell the difference between the sexes from enough distance to find a place to hide.

On this forum I’m not asked to tip toe around people who think a man puts on a frock, says magic words and ta dam ! wine turns into blood. Also I’m allowed to use facts that feel like a big stick to people’s feelings, as long as I don’t personally attack them (fine by me, I’d always rather play the ball than the woman). But on this issue I’m expected to creep around the vestry like a secretly atheist chorister, forced to chose between total silence or mouthing the words to a hymn I think is full of bollocks.

I think the tide has turned enough that ye olde hastily cobbled together in crisis rules, for managing what has turned into the mother of hot potatoes, could be revoked. And we can go back to the 99%+ of people on the planet who believe in reality being ungagged at this point.

I look forward to the next new naughty step. Where I expected to herded into the Goldfish board for the crime of not agreeing gravity isn’t real and feeling floaty is valid & brave.

To be properly 'inclusive' Mumsnet would need at least one feminism talk group for each of the 100 genders.

I'm disappointed that the OP is so transphobic that they are excluding so many of the most vulnerable people in our society.

Vast groups of these feminists must be feeling horribly excluded by transphobes like @PlanetLuna. Once they have an inclusive group of their own I'm sure that each of these 100 genders will have some truly remarkable insights into the best way to tackle gender inequality.

Yes, let’s call it the “feminism for men’s rights and fictional bullshit board
”.

🤣🤣🤣

What were the chances???

I haven't read the, I'm assuming, zillions of says pointing out the wankery of this OP.

Personally I couldn't give much of a fuck. It doesn't matter how many times you kick us off any board, this subject is still generating a torrential interest.

But what really warms the cockles of my heart, is the utter desperation required to demand women re-categorise themselves for the third time.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

On this forum I’m not asked to tip toe around people who think a man puts on a frock, says magic words and ta dam ! wine turns into blood. Also I’m allowed to use facts that feel like a big stick to people’s feelings, as long as I don’t personally attack them (fine by me, I’d always rather play the ball than the woman). But on this issue I’m expected to creep around the vestry like a secretly atheist chorister, forced to chose between total silence or mouthing the words to a hymn I think is full of bollocks.

😆

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

You made my new favourite post on the thread @AlienatedChildGrown !

"My request was to MN, which I have forwarded by other means, not to GC posters."

then why on earth did you post it on here? the only reason would be to get the reactions you got. The correct place to post it would be in Site Stuff - that is where requests get made for new boards.

If you don't know that then you have not done some very simple research and IMO you are not a regular poster who is posting in good faith.

That is the classic behaviour of a Troll. You did not post to engage but to provoke. Definition attached as it seems you are not very familiar with how online forums work.

Feminism includes considering women who aren't feminists.

No worries.

We were never told that this place was a 'safe space' for any type of poster. Quite the opposite in fact.

It has had many robust discussions in the past. It has had trans people post and not surprisingly it has had its fair share of female trans people who may or may not call themselves feminists come and have discussions with us that are very interesting. Because, they assured us, there are more than we think of them out there who are reading.

This has been mentioned repeatedly on this thread.

Either the OP lacks the ability to look for the 'contact us' button, or has posted this with other motivations. I think once you see the language used, it becomes clear.

Is this thread on twitter yet? I mean I’m assuming it is for screen shots

forwarded by other means

😂

MNHQ replied but whatever

@Helleofabore , yep stirring the pot!

912 doesn't work in Europe - North America (US, Canada and parts of the Caribbean) only.

112 is the European emergency number.

This has been a public service message, not a derail.

not true. In Germany at least (and as i wrote i think maybe other parts of Europe) in the GSM network and in some areas from landline, 911 (not 912) is automatically transferred to either 110 or 112 which are the German emergency numbers

OP I do get what you are saying. The people who post regularly on this board do mostly have a strong GC point of view.

However I'm not sure how your new board would work? Would anyone posting a GC view simply be deleted? I don't think that's done on any MN board, except the odd deletion where someone is being particularly horrible (usually not even then!). I can't think of any boards where people are not allowed to post with a particular viewpoint.

I think you could post on Feminism Chat. Or perhaps even on AIBU if you're brave enough - more posts on sex & gender are being allowed to stand there now. However - as with all of MN - you can't really request that people are only allowed to reply if they agree with you!

Sorry that there is a serious cohort of women that don't take bullshit lying down?

I'm only a few pages in but I've seen so many more posters here validating this board than I have seen in a long time.

Don't underestimate the power of this place.

Yes the standards applied to a discussion may be far more forthright than people would prefer.

I would suggest that women being forthright is women being their best selves.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.

Lie about women and I will pick you up, because lying is damaging.

That's a beautiful January description.

I post all my feminist threads on this board because for me, feminism is entirely about sex and gender and I can't see what within feminism does not include sex and/or gender.

Not meaning to derail this thread, but there's an LGBT Children board which is specifically meant for these types of questions, among others. I don't see how parenting a trans son is inherently a "feminist" topic, so it sounds like that poster accidentally chose a wrong board (unless there was a specifically feminist element to the question). In cases like that, the OP can tag their own post and request a mod to move it.

Across the site, you see very direct, contentious posts on the more general, fast-moving boards like AIBU or Chat and perhaps more considered, targeted advice on, e.g., Relationships, Step-Parenting, Teenagers and other more granular topic boards. MN is a large site that attracts both positive and negative attention and is targeted a lot by people who for whatever reason do not like a woman-owned site that encourages women to talk without male supervision. MN's model also makes it very easy to register, post, name-change, etc. so you get all sorts.

You may see a lot you find blunt or even rude or wrong, but personal attacks aren't allowed and no one is allowed to call you a troll. Also, of course, transphobic content is not allowed. HOWEVER, the mods don't cruise the threads looking for violations, they rely on users to report - so if no one reports a problem post right away, it may stay up for a bit. This isn't unique to MumsNet, it's one of a number of common methods of running a forum and it may not suit you. (Personally I prefer it to heavy up-front moderation or the unavoidable delays on pre-moderated sites, but everyone's different). Sometimes you have to focus on the replies that apply to/are useful to you and leave the rest.

Finally, I doubt there are actual hyenas posting here, but as MNHQ has been running a user census, I'm sure they'll let us know. And, if the situation warrants, provide a hyena emoji!

Oh, we're here. Vipers, hyenas, all sorts.

The more insults we get, the more I know we're having an impact, tbh.

I've been gender critical and non-conforming since I was 6 years old. I had to fight to get into construction in the 1980s.

I don't have a 'strong GC point of view', I have a whole 50 years of living it and fighting it. It flows through me like Brighton does through a stripey stick of rock.

@Helleofabore indeed, it makes me wonder why the liberal feminists like the OP haven’t yet noticed why there might be connections between “liberal feminism” and “neoliberalism” 🤣

As for the far right supremacism notion - hasn’t the OP noticed that most U.K. GC feminists are left wing, but in the traditional sense of a politics of class analysis? Doesn’t seem like you know much about the U.K. context, @PlanetLuna. It might actually be really informative to you to find out more about GC/second wave feminism, most of which has its roots in Engels and cultural materialism. “Supremacism” is a largely U.S. concept which doesn’t make much sense in the U.K. context.