Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

[PlanetLuna]

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

You realise that if you have a new board set up, then exactly the same people will go on it and argue the same points on there. It's not that this section or even Mumsnet are gender critical, it's that this is a UK-centric site, and the majority of people in the UK are gender critical.

You see it more on here than in real life or somewhere like reddit, because here is a safe anonymous place to share them

OP, are all questions asking 'what group of people are you referring to when you say 'woman'?' seen as 'derisory demands' by you? If not, and people want to know what you mean when you use the term, which is the best way of asking?

NB I am not frothing nor demanding anything, I am politely asking with intent to learn.

It wasn't that people disagreed (because that's ok to disagree) it was the accusations, name calling, twisting words. It was nasty and unpleasant. Many of the posts were deleted by MNHQ. I also was not trying to win any sort of argument, more to ask for evidence other than one badly edited Tik Tok video, and the dangers these videos can present.

Many posters on this board are black or white.
They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers.

Most people posting here don't fit into either of these stereotypes.

It seems that those posters also believe they are feminists while doing so.

My money's on hysterical next

I vote to re-establish FWR as it is them clear that is to discuss the rights of biological females.

We do not need a "chat" section though on occassions would like there to be a cake section so that threads dont get derailed by debates about fruitcake, sponges, chocolate fudge.

https://deadwildroses.com/2019/10/07/handy-venn-diagrams-the-radical-feminist-position-on-gender/

For OP and others who don't understand what being critical of the concept of gender actually means.

We're mostly in the green circle on this board. You can see how gender ideology and religious conservatives have just as much in common with each other....

Feminism is the only circle that frees women from the control of males and fees all humans from oppressive gender stereotypes. In a feminist world everyone is free to present themselves however they want and consensually shag whoever. It's not ok with religious conservatives because they need the concept of gender in order to keep women as the property of the male heads of family. Why are believers in gender ideology so opposed to feminist ideals?

How can someone be a feminist if they don't want to advocate for women and girls?
I can't see it being anything other than bunfight central and a troll/TRA magnet

I am a GC feminist but not like the majority on here it seems.

Tbh I don’t actually care if a man wants to wear a dress and make up or if a women wants to shave her hair off and wear baggy jeans and boxers.

I do care about separate changing rooms, toilets, sports etc.

I also hate the message that if you like or dislike X, Y, Z that must mean you have gender issues instead of just not being a stereotype.

You actually sound like most people who post on here.

So the posts were deleted?

The moderators did their jobs?

This is a publicly open forum. What do you think should happen? That all views are pre-moderated before they are put up?

Or you just do the mature thing and report posts that fall outside the guidelines and move on?

If you want nodding head threads, go ahead and create them. No one is stopping you.

@Helleofabore
Thanks for stalking me, but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The post MN deleted wasn’t offensive as pointed out by the person who was the recipient of it.

The other threads I asked to have deleted. One was a positive comment about the King’s recent trip with a snarky comment about QC Camilla & a related photo. The others were positive but I had them all deleted to withdraw from the thread.

All of these questions could be/should be discussed. Expect robust challenge though. If you can't defend your position, under polite disagreement, you don't have a position. Learning to argue and articulate a view is essential to a society. It would be a good thing to do under the anonymity of mumsnet. There are some educated and highly intelligent people here, most of whom will offer their time to developing an understanding of other viewpoints. It is something really valuable that mumsnet FWR does. Agreement is not compulsory here.

Well this has been an enjoyable thread

thanks for starting it OP

I particularly enjoyed “I like January” gate

I posted about my ‘trans’ students (most of which are F-M) but one was M-F which I wanted opinions on.
I cannot have these discussions in RL and it would be nice to have a place where I can discuss them without being accused of all sorts.

When discussing a difficult situation that you are personally involved with, you can request it be treated as a ‘support thread’ (as opposed to a political or intellectual discussion). Not everyone will automatically comply but mumsnet will usually moderate accordingly. There is an incredibly thoughtful recent thread around re: a teenage who suddenly and unexpectedly ran away to live with a teen friends family.

There is also a site section called the ‘The Staff Room’, posters there might have some insight too.

Gender critical means you’re critical of the societal concept and construct of gender and the limitations it places upon society, or in this context, women.

You have fashioned it to mean something ridiculous.

'Baggage' isn't used nearly enough in that context! 😂

Aligns with the white supremacist movement ?!

You can post what you like on the feminism board but no matter where you put it you get at best laughed at if you try to make the case that women interested in say safeguarding are like white supremacists

Women don't believe they are better than men or transwomen

We just know we are different in material ways around physical reproductive biology

No thank you. Feminism doesn't centre men, nor does it include them. Can we have nothing that's just for us?

@PlanetLuna there was a lot of opposition to the original split that was made - and there is nothing stopping you starting threads in feminist chat or gender and sex.

This board does have a long history of being/feeling under attack - and many posters are weary and wary in response - but actual threads with a topic posters will debate and discuss on.

I've notice your name in The Royal family section - so wonder if you are not British - here in UK feminism is currently very preoccupied with erosion of women's rights because it has to be so that is reflected in current threads - but you can and should start ones on things you wish to discuss.

You could start a thread on any and all of these topics. No-one is stopping you. But you also can't stop people from disagreeing with you in threads you have started. An 'inclusive' feminist board which bans all GC posters from posting doesn't sound very inclusive...

I like your username 💙

I REALY think the OP should start an AIBU to think that GC feminism aligns with white supremacy thread

that would be ACE

she could lay out all her arguments clearly and define her terms

<happy sigh>

"They think you need to think that all trans people should be banned and are dirty perverts or you’re someone who thinks mens rights come before womens and you want children to have hormone blockers."

Banned from what?

And can you post a link and evidence to where you think that 'many posters' think that all trans people are dirty perverts please. Because that is a very serious accusation and I doubt that it represents anything like 'many' posters thinking this. If any at all.