Community sentence for rape of a 13 year old

[Shelefttheweb]

Wtf?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65164041

How can this possibly be considered a ‘first offence’ when he raped her multiple times and also sexually assaulted another child? The ‘first offence’ would be the first assault, his subsequent actions made him a serial offender!

Some of the news reports said that at least one of the occasions was while the victim was asleep. It may be the case that the victim and the offender knew each other. With this in mind, we should probably avoid further discussion on this aspect in case it threatens the victim's anonymity.

Absolutely horrendous. I echo what others have said- how can a teenager be informed and mature enough to to change gender but not to know that rape is wrong?

@prh47bridge - it is not wrong. The purposes of sentencing in England and Wales are set down in primary legislation (the Sentencing Act 2020). Punishment and rehabilitation are included but are equal in law.

To change that priority of equality, you would need an Act of Parliament. A guideline would not be a lawful change unless there was a primary legislative change to adjust those statutes.

In Scotland, it appears that someone just rewrote the guideline. With no primary legislation to change those purposes.

So....all that's needed is for an contract killer who's under the age of 25 to go to work on him and they'll be excused...have I got that right?

Nice little earner for people just starting out in life - carry out community service in the form of a spot of gene pool-cleansing and you'll have a house deposit in no time.

It's one way of keeping the stats on youth crime low.

Maybe as this individual is rapistgender they just couldn't face another stramash over prisons.

Don’t believe it - according to KPSS the number of TW in women’s prison is now higher than it was when they were placing the double rapist there.

A leading KC in Scotland has described the sentencing as "extraordinary", which is lawyer speak for "absolutely fucking insane" so hopefully the Crown will appeal.

I can't bloody believe the defence KC is going to appeal. What? Undue leniency towards his client?

On what basis can they appeal the sentence? None. There is no unduly lenient sentence scheme in Scotland.

The only thing that can be appealed is the conviction, by the defendant.

No-one has rewritten the guideline (which, in any event, does not apply to Scotland).

In England & Wales the Sentencing Council decides how to balance punishment, rehabilitation and other factors in determining the sentence.

In England & Wales the Sentencing Council leans towards rehabilitation for young offenders. The sentencing guidelines specifically state, "For a child or young person the sentence should focus on rehabilitation where possible".

Both of the above are the same in Scotland. The main difference is that Scotland defines a young offender as being below 25, whereas England & Wales use 18.

At the end of the article on the BBC: "A spokesperson for the Crown Office said: "As with all cases, the Crown will consider the sentence and give consideration to whether it might be unduly lenient."

@prh47bridge - the statutory purpose of sentencing is changed if;

You change the application of a guideline, such that the purposes of the primary law is affected. That is wrong. It is changing the scope and application of law without scrutiny. A few judges and civil servants scoping these changes is not the same, is it.

The Sentencing Council in England and Wales derives its powers from primary legislation. It consults on its guidelines.

Does this happen in Scotland? It looks like someone decided to change the scope and application of sentencing law without a primary legislative change. There should have been one to back this up.

Scotlands a fucked up place to live no doubt. God.

I think the Crown Office are full of it. Do they have a ULS for Scotland? If they do, it would have been easy to say so.

Another report on BBC Scotland:

'The KC said: "It is an extraordinary sentence.
"I have been working in the high court for around 20 years and I have never seen anybody avoid prison for rape until yesterday."'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054

It may be extraordinary but it will be lawful if the judge followed the guidelines set down by the Scottish Sentencing Council. Judge excused.

The policy behind the guideline, the definition of youth offending and how that was done in Scotland looks very murky.

I wonder how the Crown Office reviews sentences. That is function given to judges for human rights reasons, so they can't just adjust it by themselves.

Or maybe they decide they can in which case Scotland has even bigger problems in criminal justice and compatibility with the ECHR.

@SNWannabe have you heard of coercion? I understand you are looking for explanations to make the sentence sensible, but I don't think choosing to meet him in the park is one.

He clearly found ways to access more than one girl on more than one occasion. He threatened her. The fact he got her to the park demonstrates rather than undermines his predatory behaviour.

So yes, they did know one another and probably arranged to meet

Not necessarily. The park could have been on her way to/from school or a club she attended. She could have been blackmailed into meeting him if he had compromising photos of her. Their families might know each other and the meetings might have been part of wider gatherings. They might be related. He could have been babysitting her.

One of the acts he was accused of (unclear if he was convicted of it) was having sex with her whilst she slept and some of the other assaults he was accused of were reported to have happened at an address in the nearby town of Penicuik.

As per my previous posts, I don't agree that the Sentencing Council for Scotland has gone any further than the Sentencing Council for England & Wales. Also, as per my previous posts, there are no civil servants involved in either Sentencing Council (unless you count the Director of Public Prosecutions) and it isn't just judges.

The Sentencing Council for Scotland derives its powers from primary legislation. It consults on its guidelines. Its guidelines have to be approved by the High Court.

@prh47bridge - there are many civil servants in the Sentencing Council. I've met them.

Also, in terms of primary legislation, whilst the Sentencing Act sets out the priorities for sentencing, that only applies in England & Wales.

The structure is clear in England and Wales.

The Sentencing Act 2020 sets the purposes of sentencing. That is a matter of policy.

The Sentencing Council, by dint of the powers it's given by Parliament, then writes guidelines for the judiciary. This is done by the members of the Council who include civil servants and the judiciary.

They cannot change the primary effect or intention of primary legislation by their guidelines or the policy. They need publicly consult.

So they cannot say, this guideline or it's application, should omit or otherwise adjust the purpose of legislation.

What you have just told me is alarming. It suggests that in Scotland, you can adjust sentencing law without a primary legislative change. A court may approve a guideline but without a decision on policy, a primary legislative change to reflect that, it looks like a criminal justice system administered a policy change, which would change the application of the law, without any serious scrutiny. A court is not a form of scrutiny. It presumably can only ratify what is in front of it.

There are many civil servants who work for the Sentencing Council. There are no civil servants on the Sentencing Council.

The Sentencing Council for England & Wales has 14 members. They are the Sentencing Council. They meet monthly and determine the sentencing guidelines. They are supported by civil servants in the Office of the Sentencing Council.

The Sentencing Council for Scotland has 12 members. They are the Sentencing Council. They meet quarterly and determine the sentencing guidelines. There are a number of advisory committees covering specific areas of law feeding into the Council. There are no civil servants on any of these committees. The Council are supported by civil servants.

You may well have met civil servants who work for the Sentencing Council in the Office of the Sentencing Council (or its equivalent in Scotland). You haven't met any who are on the Sentencing Council. There aren't any. The civil servants do not set the guidelines. The members of the Sentencing Council do that.

So basically rape has been formally legalised (rather than the informal arrangement we all suspected)