Starmer: Almost no-one is talking about trans issues

[SidewaysOtter]

To quote from the rolling news section of this morning's Times:

"Almost no Britons are “talking about trans issues,” Sir Keir Starmer has said as he questioned why such issues are a focus of political debate.

The Labour leader sought to win over gender critical campaigners and MPs at the weekend, telling The Sunday Times there would be “no rolling back” of women’s rights if the party formed a government.

Speaking to LBC this morning he repeated his position that “for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman. He said that Labour was trying to agree a “common sense, respectable and tolerant position”, but that it was “not prepared to ignore” the small number of people who identify as a different gender to the one they were born in.

He insisted it was a marginal issue for many voters, however. “As we go around the country campaigning, I talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. They want to talk to me about the cost of living crisis, about the fact they can’t pay their bills, they want to know what they’re going to do about their council tax,” he said.

“Almost nobody is talking about trans issues. I do sometimes just wonder why on earth we spend so much of our time discussing something which isn’t a feature of the dinner table or the kitchen table or the café table or the bar.”

Funny, because I think there's quite a lot of people talking about "trans issues". Whether it's the treatment of Posie Parker and the 72-year-old woman who were violently assaulted last weekend, male-bodied people in women's sports/changing rooms/hospital wards/prisons, the medicalisation/mutilation of young adults, or the vilification of those who speak The Terrible Heresy that you cannot change your biological sex. And yes, we're talking about it at the dinner table, the café bar or wherever.

"No rolling back of women's rights" doesn't mean shit if you count men as women, Mr Starmer. And you can wang on about "respect and tolerance" all you like but we know what you really mean by that is wanting us to be quiet and stop being awkward. That isn't going to happen.

It's only because people are clueless about what's happening that they don't talk about it. Look at what happened in Scotland as soon as Isla / Adam story broke it was all over the papers once people actually realised this is what's happening now.

Sturgeon and the SNP tried this as well. They found out the hard way that they were the ones in a bubble.

I rarely talk about it irl because I've seen what happens to people who do.

Quite. Is Kier incapable of seeing or hearing what happens to the women and some men who do speak out? Not noticed all the Court cases Kier? Not noticed the reams of abuse women who speak out are subjected to Kier? FFS one of your own MPs has been relentlessly abused and bullied for speaking out.

Kier - a man who wears blinkers and ear muffs to make sure he neither sees nor hears anything he doesn't want to.

And he is a potential leader of this Country???

Quite.

AND another reason people aren't talking about it is because they're scared to! I worry that My dearest lovliest friend in the whole world may be on the TWAW side of the debate so although we talk for hours I've NEVER broached this subject as I can't bear to fall out with her.

Equally I avoid it at work for fear of being labelled / ostracised / dropped (I'm a consultant so contracts could not be renewed if I get it wrong)

Is he telling us he's limiting his premiership to ten issues?

Parliament will have ten subjects to work on and no more?

Fucking stupid.

It’s easy to shut down discussion if you claim the thing doesn’t exist or isn’t important. Politicians have been doing it for decades.

It suits Keir to claim no voters are interested in this knowing damn well it’s dominating social media and contaminating our children, particularly our most vulnerable children. He wants the focus to be on COL and the NHS as that suits his party very nicely indeed.

It isn't the biggest issue for most people. However the key thing as SNP showed that cuts both ways.

If you push the gender issue in a HUGE way as a priority for ordinary people it shows to them you are wasting time/money and average voters hate that. The more they hear about gender stuff the more people dislike it. Remember because US media loves gender stuff and culture wars they will be pushing it more and that will alienate more people. Also the US media likes talking about it in a narrow way, but we have more of an open debate here. The UK media knows A LOT of people will read articles about the gender wars. So they publish more of them.

I think Labour will likely win next election, but the Tories will use gender as an attack point in campaign. Then when Labour take power if they concentrate on stuff that matters to people and do well they might get relected.

However if Labour while in power decide to push more gender stuff then there will be drama over that inside their own party and in the media. Then the election in 2028 will feature even MORE gender drama.

This debate WILL never go away until women feel safer or until they are banned from saying things.

Look at the future it will hold:

More detransitioners
More neogender stuff - which is so absurd it undermines everything else.
More "trans" criminals
More countries with sensible healthcare questioning logic of transitioning
More women organising/speaking
More LGB going their own way.

The gender crit side is only going to gain power over time.

I don't think the 2024 election will hinge on gender, but if Labour screws up then the 2028 election might have it as a huge factor. Especially as the next Tory leader might be Kemi.

I think many people don't (or didn't) know what is happening. The sports thing brought it across my OH's radar. Thinks blokes being allowed to compete against women as if they were women is disgraceful. The anti-science element bugs him too. This isn't simply an opinion or perspective. It is flat earth stuff.

Maybe children being taught they could be 'in the wrong body', and/or set on a course for drugs or surgery for cosmetic reasons will be the subject of an investigation into the scandal in a few years. People maybe unaware, or unconcerned, this anti-scientific belief is being spoon fed to children as if it had any credibility.

for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman

What do the other percent think a woman is then, and does KS agree with that percent? I still don't want a human with a penis in womens prisons, hospital wards or refuges. Its that simple Kier. It really is.

Yep hopefully Starmer will find out too

Exactly. There will be more and more Isla Brysons and Lia Thomases. This issue is not going to just settle down, people are not going to accept penis in their daughter's changing rooms or sports.

Not so much a bubble Sturgeon didn’t see the consequences.

People keep posting this but one of the highest polling politicians is out.

I've got to the point where I have zero respect for this man. I'm an beyond fed up of his weasly worded absolute drivel.

Is he saying again that women don't matter? Because we are talking about it - don't we count?

It does come up on the doorstep. A lot.

It's not referred to as "trans issues" though. It's spoken about as "why have we got dodgy blokes in womens' prisons then?" or "What's with all these unisex toilets everywhere?" or "These 72 genders, what's that all about then?" and "Honestly, I read the papers and everybody's just gone mad."

And the constant refrain of "This country is going down the toilet fast and I am worried for my grandchildren. That Starmer doesn't even know what a woman is, for crying out loud. And what's with telling boys they are girls?"

(The other constant refrain is "What we need in this country is more folk who know how to build stuff and make stuff. All these politicians, none of them know how stuff actually gets done and made.")

Starmer is being very disingenuous by saying this subject does not feed into a very significant fear of where things are heading in Britain. It's either that, or his staff aren't being honest with him.

Yes @Rainbowshit, they will get in and I think KS will be under pressure from his own party to start making changes quickly.

The result will be everyone seeing the consequences. Boys and men in women's spaces, no questions asked. It will peak men, especially fathers, very quickly.

I wonder if the sporting bodies will be forced to u-turn on their current policies.

Given his commitment to this, I hope the media start asking more direct questions about where it leads. For example, ok Kier, are you saying that Isla Bryson should be in a women's prison/in a women's refuge. Are you saying that you agree with your daughter preying rugby/swimming against boys.

He wants an honest and open conversation so let's open up and dug down into some detail. Every time he mentions women, the question needs to confirm he also means trans identifying males.

Yup. It'll be a premiership akin to Nick Knowles's 'Who Dares Wins' tv show. I'm sorry, it's not on The List! You don't win today's jackpot amount, Linda and Des.

No one talks about it outside Mumsnet?

This was a Scottish news-stand when Sturgeon, the SNP and the SPS had to do their humiliating climb down over Isla Bryson. It's a big of why Scottish politics is so much in disarray at the moment. Political parties in the rUK should really take heed of what happens when you tell people that their concerns 'aren't valid' and it's then shown that their concerns are very real and very valid. Even die hards who were insistent that Section 35 should not be invoked have backed off considerably.

And people are talking about it. Day to day. Over kitchen tables, in pubs and at social events.

One thing I agree with Keir. It's not something the majority care about. Hell who even runs into a trans person in their day to day life?

It's media attracting clickbites and soundbites, culture war stoking and the politics of distraction. Only small echo chambers like this one really make you think it's actually an issue the normal voter cares about.

I do find it amusing. But it a lot of ways not. It's just fear mongering and intolerance of those who are different - such as calling drag queens "groomers".

Please ignore sealioning. Just saying.

I’ve spoken about it with 2 people just today and my elderly mother in law last visit. She actually surprised me as she knew all about it and all the arguments.
it probably was a niche issue last election but that is no longer the case

I do think the stories all over the news recently about sports and prisons have brought these issues to the fore.

Hell who even runs into a trans person in their day to day life?

Every child at our local school, daily. (Trans students and trans identifying staff.)

My brother, most days (trans stepchild).

My older DC, daily (student houseshare with a ‘non binary’ lad).

Where on earth do you live? Or do you have no contact with the outside world, or at least anyone under 30?