My husband

[Wildeheart]

DH thinks that a political party’s approach to trans rights is a small aspect of their manifesto and, while important, we should give more weight to their other policies on, for example, climate change when deciding who to vote for. This is in context of me saying that I would consider voting for the Tories for the first time ever instead of Labour if the Lib Dems were not the popular party in my area. How can I explain to him that trans rights potentially have a huge impact on women’s rights even though trans people make up a small percentage of the population (which is his argument)?

This is my thinking.

Also if someone is scared of the TRA wing of their own party, how the fuck are they going to stand up to Putin and China?

It's even simpler than that, Zipfer. If I voted Tory (and I've never previously considered it in my life) it would be on the simple issue of recognising that humans cannot change sex, 'gender' is just a lifestyle choice, and single-sex spaces remain as necessary as when they were established.

I would know that a lot of Tory policies harm women more than men, but I have little faith that other parties would do substantially less harm. On the other hand, most other parties are riddled with genderist ideology, which is massively harmful.

Yes, but he needs to realise this isn't simply a case of preferring one stance or another, TRA is a zero sum game.

ANY acquiescence to the trans narrative destroys once and for all the totality of women's spaces, rights etc.

There WERE ways of squaring the circle. What I call the "Billy Elliott" solution where people are accepted whatever gender presentation they wish, but sex class based rights take pre-eminence.

Unfortunately that ship has sailed, and the battle now is for the zero sum game where sex based rights must triumph.

@Wildeheart baffling that you are considering voting conservative on this basis. They have been in charge for 13 years and have been the ones pushing the pro-trans legislative / policy changes that you criticise.

I can see both sides of what you and your husband are saying. I do agree with his reasoning though as I often chose who to vote for based on what policies are important to me (or for the that has the most polices I agree with) which does mean I sometimes don't agree with them 100% but I agree with them the issues that are important to me

I also don't think the tories are doing anything about women's rights out of a solid principle that women's rights matter. they just think it is part of the culture wars and is a way to annoy Labour. Most of them would be happy to ignore women / put us back in the kitchen if they could. So I wouldn't trust them on this matter or anything else.

This. They're courting votes and nothing else. Nothing they've done over the last twelve years has been anything other than damaging to women and families. I wouldn't trust them on this any more than I'd trust them on anything else.

I am as TERF as they come, but I don't believe a single word uttered by Tories and I definitely don't think they care about women's rights. They care about making money by privatising vital public services and couldn't care less about the most vulnerable in society (a huge proportion of whom are women).

And, as others have said, climate change is the one thing that will make everything else entirely irrelevant. It's terrifying that most people are not panicking about the effects of climate change.

It is a secret ballot. You vote for whoever you want.
It matters because it has infiltrated pretty much every aspect of life and yet no one really understands why or exactly which forces are driving it.

This x 1000. The Tories are the only mainstream party which hasn't insisted all its members chant the TWAW mantra.
Free speech is important too and they are way better on that as it is part of Conservative philosophy.

Firstly however you chose to vote is absolutely none of his business.
Secondly, even one male makes a women's space mixed sex. Without our consent.
And the threat of that happening at any time or place, again without consent, is enough to push many women out of those spaces.
Nobody gave us those spaces, women had to fight and in some cases died for the rights we have now, I'll be damned to roll over and give them away over any man's hurt feelings, however small in number they may claim to be when it suits.
We say no, thank you.

@Wildeheart it's not the genuine trans that are the (main) issue, it's the conveniently 'trans' that are a problem. Conveniently trans when they want to pervert, want to be in a womens prison...

it's the rubbish kids are being told in schools that's the problem.

Does he have kids???

The tories have lied about every fucking thing for the last twelve years.

Seriously, what are you thinking? You trust them because of one single sentence that they HAVEN'T used? You can look back over the last 12 years of destruction of public services, and their dishonesty and finacial chicanery during Covid, and decide that they can be trusted?

This in one issue blinkerdness at its most extreme.

I don't think most men can really get it because it doesn't effect their life in any meaningful way. If a woman came into their toilets, they might feel embarrassed but they wouldn't feel fearful.
It takes someone like Avi Silverberg, who coaches the Canadian women powerlifters, to see every day how a transwoman undermines their achievements and makes them out to be second class. He gets it because he sees how it hurts women.
GC men might support women rights but they don't, maybe can't, truly understand how it can insidiously undermine women's lives as right after right is taken away so that women aren't even allowed to express their concerns. So it's easy to say this is just a small issue out of many issues to vote for. But for many women, fighting for equality and respect for ourselves and for our daughters and granddaughters is an issue that can't be put on the back burner. Because if we don't fight to keep our rights, we'll lose them and risk never getting them back. Men's rights are never at risk so they have the luxury of voting on whatever issue takes their fancy whilst dictating to women they should put their rights on hold for the good of the men of the country.

And another thing...
I don't think anyone else has made this point but keir and his pals tend to refer to us in not very nice terms.
You don't get to call me terf/far right ( whatever that is?! ) / nazi/fascist, etc., and then expect to receive my vote! Absolutely not! They think you are scum and any volte face now will purely be for the purposes of getting your vote, not because they support our cause and most certainly not because they are in favour, or will act to protect womens rights.
As for climate change... lol! labour party = more green taxes, = price increases across the board, so the poor will get poorer especially those already in severe fuel poverty. It makes me laugh when i see ed miliband complain about fuel prices, he introduced the green fuel taxes that are already a millstone around the necks of people in fuel poverty. As for the rest of them, holidays abroad, not just one car for the household but often several, holidays abroad, use of fires, central heating and water heaters, all adds up. Eating or using other products containing palm oil taken from deforested rain forests destroying the habitats of thousands of species of animals, etc., etc., etc.
There are loads more examples of abject hypocrisy, all being put on the heads of the populace of a country that has already deindustrialised at the cost of tens of thousands jobs, leading to tens of thousands of families all for a CO2 output of less than 3%! No thanks!
My vote will not be going to my local labour candidate and I'm a party member!

* Tens of thousands of families living in abject poverty! * that should have said.

Vote for Kellie Jay Keen when she stands against Kier :)

Would that i could @SwordToFlamethrower would that i could!
Sadly, i'm not in that constituency but i would vote for her if i was. If someone stands for POW in my area, i will indeed vote for them.

So he's ok with male in female prisons and female sports? Or has he just not really thought about it.

Your DH understands the concept of a Wedge Issue.

The reason why political parties like pushing wedge issues is because they intentionally polarise voters in a way that will make them ignore other important issues.

American politics is famous for focussing on abortion, gun rights, and gay marriage because these issues are ‘bright lines’ for American voters … to the extent that many voters will cast votes for parties and politicians that work against the interests of the constituents who elect them.

This.
Please note that women DIED to give us rights, and men are taking them away again.

Women and girls have been raped, RAPED, by the policy of allowing any man/boy who says he is a "woman" into what used to be female-only spaces.

It's pretty serious.

Any government who bends to a small minority of men (or Masons) to destroy women’s safety cannot be trusted to run a country.

We need a government that will stand up to fossil fuel giants. Labour might not do that, the tories definitely won’t. If we delay taking action for another five years, the consequences may cost the lives of millions or even billions. There are so many tipping points we are approaching or may have already passed.
If we lose women’s rights now, we could regain them in a few hundred years. If we don’t act immediately on climate change (and even possibly if we do) then in a few hundred years, we may exist in small post apocalyptic groups clustered around the poles.
Surely we have to try to save future generations from near extinction to the very best of our ability? I can’t see voting Tory being the way forwards at all.

You would consider voting for the Tories?

A party that has destroyed our standards of living, the NHS, given us the Brexit mess and is full of lying, corrupt and incompetent politicians? not to mention is keen on removing our right to protest and wants to control the media...

Madness.

Your partner is right. You might agree with them on this one issue but the damage they are doing to the UK cannot be ignored.

At least under the leadership of another party you will still have your right of free speech!

It’s not a “wasted” vote. It’s a message that none of the current parties deserve your vote. I’m in the same position. I would no more vote Tory than eat someone else’s toenails - in fact if that were the choice, pass me the ketchup - but neither can I vote for a party that professes not to know which sex I am. So I will spoil my ballot paper which at least sends a message, albeit in a tiny way, that I am politically engaged enough to want to vote, but that none of the parties with representatives on the ballot paper are worth voting for.