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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Majorly outed myself at work

110 replies

cheshirecatssmile · 28/03/2023 12:41

I work for the nhs. Yesterday we were handed some laminated shite about gender identity information.
The fella handed it to me saying it had come from the inclusion &diversity dude. He's also LBGT+ lead and my head of nursing.

I showed the laminate to some gay members of my team. They were disgusted by the wording.

So I emailed the heads of nursing, stating the bloody obvious.
I had backing off my manager who didn't want the laminate on the staff room wall.

So pressed send. Had radio silence back.

I'm now getting my ducks in a row, maybe not needed , but just in case.

I had also sent them a foi regarding there partnership with stonewall.

It's either going to be how do we shut her up or how do we distance ourselves from it.

Either way big black mark against my name.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
KalimbaMoon · 28/03/2023 17:07

Whoopsmahoot · 28/03/2023 16:13

Sorry but I get infuriated at being called a cis woman. You call yourself what ever you want- a cabbage for all I care - but don’t make me have to call myself something I don’t agree with. I am a woman, NOT I cis woman and I am offended by the term when you’re forcing it on me.

Cis is just so rude. It is so rude to make assumptions that anyone has a ‘gender identity’. No, that’s trans people. They have a gender identity and that’s why they wish they could change sex, to match their gender identity. I don’t identify as a woman, I am one. I have female biology, which is a fact I cannot change, and it does not shape my personality. We already have a word for biologically female people and that word is woman. No cis prefix is necessary.

Coyoacan · 28/03/2023 17:08

A lot of LGBTQIA+ people I know call themselves queer. It's reclaiming the word, like black people with "n" word

Not quite the same. I mean no government organisation in the USA to going to start talking about including "n"s in its diversity training.

Redebs · 28/03/2023 17:10

Hang tight OP!
Things are shifting back to a more rational approach in the NHS.
There was a announcement earlier this month advising that all the 'cervix-owner' type nonsense be abandoned.
Reason might yet prevail.
But what a waste of cash it has been!

Zebedee999 · 28/03/2023 17:14

cheshirecatssmile · 28/03/2023 15:42

Christ on an actual bike

Clearly no shortage of money in the NHS if they can afford all the person hours put into this type of thing.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/03/2023 17:21

Allthecheeseplease · 28/03/2023 16:57

A lot of LGBTQIA+ people I know call themselves queer. It's reclaiming the word, like black people with "n" word. Of course not all people will like it. It's like anything else i suppose. I don't like being called "girl" because I'm an adult but other adult women are fine with it.

How many of them are gay men who suffered the use of “queer” as an insult when “queer-bashing” was a post pub pastime for homophobic thugs?
They are the ones who have the right to reclaim the word - nobody else. If it wasn’t a slur directed at you then it’s not for you to reclaim.

Allthecheeseplease · 28/03/2023 17:25

@ArabellaScott @Coyoacan

I'm not in the US, not have I recieved diversity training there so I can't comment but I would expect that people in the US should be aware that a black person might use the N word to describe themselves in certain circumstances, as a non hetero person might use queer. Also queer is used profusely by the tiktok generation who describe themselves as such so I'm sure working in the NHS it will be something staff come across. As I said in my post, not all people like the word. I may have misunderstood the OP's post but I think the point was that a person maybe describe themselves that way to be aware of it? No? I don't think the idea was that the OP would call every LGBTQIA+ person queer?

TBH it doesn't matter to me, I just made the statement based on anecdotal evidence in my life. I'm not in the LGBTQIA+ community or the NHS nor do I have access to it so it doesn't affect me directly.

Needmoresleep · 28/03/2023 17:27

I would never call a gay person "queer" unless it was a description they actively embraced, and even then I would feel uncomfortable

I would not use the "n word" to describe a black person, even if this is a word they used themselves.

And I would be very offended if someone chose not to accept me as a women, but insisted on referring to me as a cis-woman.

There is something odd about a group so easily offended then going out of their way to offend others.

Allthecheeseplease · 28/03/2023 17:30

Needmoresleep · 28/03/2023 17:27

I would never call a gay person "queer" unless it was a description they actively embraced, and even then I would feel uncomfortable

I would not use the "n word" to describe a black person, even if this is a word they used themselves.

And I would be very offended if someone chose not to accept me as a women, but insisted on referring to me as a cis-woman.

There is something odd about a group so easily offended then going out of their way to offend others.

I absolutely wouldn't label anyone anything they weren't comfortable or didn't embrace.

Whoopsmahoot · 28/03/2023 17:53

Cervix owner FFS 🙄🤦‍♀️ does my nut.

fainallyhere · 28/03/2023 17:59

This reply has been deleted

We don't believe that this was posted in good faith.

Needmoresleep · 28/03/2023 18:02

Allthecheeseplease · 28/03/2023 17:30

I absolutely wouldn't label anyone anything they weren't comfortable or didn't embrace.

What is it about this "professional" NHS inclusion and diversity dude that means he believes he has the right to call women "cis".

Is it because women's views don't count in some men's eyes?

Stepuptowardsinfinity · 28/03/2023 18:08

Please do join the Free Speech Union. They are excellent in advising on what to do in situations like this.

cheshirecatssmile · 28/03/2023 18:09

I'm pondering next step.

Do I get my facts together and ask for a face to face

Or

Do I do the same to them, replying to their points or their email and state my opinion. Again.

Or

Something else

My husband has come home and told me to stop rocking the boat as I will loose my job.
Told him it's that attitude that's got us to where we are today.
I won't shut up.

OP posts:
cheshirecatssmile · 28/03/2023 18:09

Stepuptowardsinfinity · 28/03/2023 18:08

Please do join the Free Speech Union. They are excellent in advising on what to do in situations like this.

I will do a google thank you

OP posts:
CascaChan · 28/03/2023 18:11

Thank you for speaking up. Hope everything goes ok for you.

FannyCann · 28/03/2023 19:02

Well done OP. NHS here too and occasionally putting my head above the parapet, posting occasional links on the intranet, that sort of thing when what I'd really like to do is tear down the bloody rainbow bunting outside the staff restaurant and stamp on it.

Do you have legal cover on your household insurance, because if you did find yourself having discussions with HR that would be a dream first stop for help. I gave same advice to someone else and she turned up for *that meeting lawyer in toe and that was the end of it.

Links to good articles to back yourself up are very helpful. Don't know if you've seen these but I've posted both on the intranet, the one about language I print out five at a time and hand them out or leave lying on tables in our department staff room.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full

There's lots of nice quotes you can find here - I like this from the conclusion:

"We suggest consideration of the following questions: How can I be clear? How can I include the people who should be included and exclude the people who should be excluded? How can I ensure that people understand what I mean and can readily recognize themselves? How can I avoid dehumanizing language? Does it make sense to apply a gendered understanding of words or a sexed understanding? Am I engaging in cultural imperialism or improper use of privilege by requiring others to use language in a particular way? How does language usage support or undermine the rights of women and children?"

One wouldn't want to be accused of cultural imperialism and improper use of privilege would one?????

This one is about a detransitioner who had a horrible time being pregnant due to staff simply not understanding the harm that had been done to her or the concept or existence of detransition, but there will be many more in the future I am sure.

From the recommendations:

"Awareness needs to be raised about the existence of detransitioned women who may require maternity care. Sensitive, informative content on detransitioners should be embedded in undergraduate midwifery and medical curricula. Assumptions should not be made about the gender identity of any individual based on their appearance, or indeed whether individuals have a gender identity."

My bold. This surely applies to all of us who object to use of the word cis? I don't have a gender identity. Don't make that assumption or force one on me!

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2023.1073053/full

FannyCann · 28/03/2023 19:04

"that would be a dream first stop for help."

Not sure where the word dream came from and can't even remember what it was meant to say - household insurance legal cover would definitely be a first stop. Mine has a 24/7 helpline, which I had reason to access late one Saturday. They were great.

FannyCann · 28/03/2023 19:10

cheshirecatssmile · 28/03/2023 15:39

Anyone know what phase 2 of the rainbow badge scheme is. Because apparently it's amazing.
Mean I will google myself

Someone has done quite a few FOIs around the rainbow badge scheme so there is information to be found looking through them.

This one helpfully supplied a copy of the induction pack which explains a lot.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbowbadgeeaccreditation25

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/870748/response/2080857/attach/html/5/Induction%20pack.docx.html

Majorly outed myself at work
Cherryblossoms85 · 28/03/2023 19:34

Amazing really how I can't even get a call back to book an appointment for Mirena, but there's plenty of money for phase 2 of the rainbows and unicorns. Women don't count.

AudHvamm · 28/03/2023 19:47

@Allthecheeseplease I think it's interesting you self-censor the "N" word but not the "Q" word while acknowledging both can be offensive.

Foreversearch · 28/03/2023 19:51

@cheshirecatssmile I would respond.

  1. CIS - ask them why are they imposing a pro noun recommended by a peadophile on 93.5% of the population? Have they asked staff and patients if they consent to this pro noun?
  2. Use the Census data https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021 to point out Transgender people make up 0.2% of the population and LGB 3.2%. Ask how the D&I budget is being proportioned and spent on the other 7 protected characteristics e.g. disability, race, religion, sex, pregnancy and maternity etc. Census has figured for each.
  3. Use the Census data to ask how many people consulted e.g. if they only ask the LGBT+ staff network this represents less than 4% of the population what about the other 96%?
  4. Use proportionality quoting the census data.

Gender identity, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

The gender identity of usual residents aged 16 years and over in England and Wales, Census 2021 data.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021

WhichPage · 28/03/2023 20:00

Yesterday I was attending a surveillance scan post ovarian cancer treatment which had included hysterectomy.

I had to complete a form before being seen.

In the NHS no less

What sex was I assigned at birth

Have I had surgery that would prevent pregnancy

🤯

Noshowlomo · 28/03/2023 20:38

You’re amazing OP. More women are becoming emboldened to speak the truth now.

Allthecheeseplease · 29/03/2023 17:32

AudHvamm · 28/03/2023 19:47

@Allthecheeseplease I think it's interesting you self-censor the "N" word but not the "Q" word while acknowledging both can be offensive.

I censored the word I introduced to the thread

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