NAMALT?

[Rageasaurus]

Name change for this. I'm a long-term poster. Support wren. Bundles. Have planted plenty of carrots in plenty of gardens. But I don't want this linked with my regular identity.

I found out this afternoon that one of my best friends has been arrested for downloading obscene images of children. For clarity, there is no dispute that he's guilty.

The images are of the worst sort.

I've been friends with him for 20 years. Changed around him. Shared a dorm with him. He supported me through a really messy breakup. I would have said - until 48 hours ago - he was one of the good guys. One of the kindest men I know.

Turns out not.

I thought about where to post, but figured this particular bit of mumsnet - filled as it is with fierce, powerful, empathic women - was probably the best bet. Plus, it's relevant. Until two days ago I'd have had no issue sharing a changing room with him. After all, he was one of the good guys. NAMALT.

Except it turns out that my best mate was like that. He, as it happens, had an enhanced DBS. Proven safe. If that, plus 20 years of friendship, isn't enough to pick out a wrong 'un, then the only safe option is to keep all men out of women's spaces.

Now and forever.

I literally have no clue where I go from here.

• I would cut him off entirely, that should have read!

Yes, the trying to make it make sense some how and clutching at straws. I totally get that. A brother of the nonce I mention in a previous post had done this ... mentioned a dodgy/inappropriate teacher in what would now be called Year 6, that several boys talked about (many years ago now) and wondered if that had something to do with it/had an influence. Clutching at straws to find a 'reason', something that made something horrific make sense.

I'm so very sorry. What a horrible appalling shock. The Lucy Faithfull Foundation run a course for family and friends of internet CSA offenders which might be useful?

www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/inform.htm

IRL I'd encourage you to talk about it but too many pervy men are on here. Do you have real life support though? Or will it implode your world if you talk about it?

Oh OP just a really big hug from me.

It's so hard when someone we know turns out to be someone different.

Take time to grieve. Because you need to.

I'm bouncing between, 'of course I'll support him, he's my best friend!' and 'get away from me vile man'.

Please, just cut all ties with him forever. This guy was a friend for 25 years:

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/predatory-sunderland-pervert-who-secretly-19470995

He was a karate instructor and did female self defence classes, all the parents loved him. He was self-effacing and willing to be the butt of a joke, do anything for anyone type. He drove girls to clubs and competitions and their parents were very happy that it was him driving.

I would cross the street and walk the other way, if I saw him today.

The harm they do is irreparable and unforgiveable.

Absolutely this. Really sorry, OP.

Nothing to offer except a hug. I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry, this must be a huge, huge shock.

The father of my son's friend was also convicted of this. He'd shared a tent with my son, his son and my husband. I felt physically sick for a long time as one charge was making images.

Also would have been dbs cleared as worked high up in nhs.

I'd consider getting counselling as he's clearly been a big part of your life.

Everyone, thank you. I cannot tell you how helpful it has been to hear from others who have been through the same. I've gone through angry (I reserve the right to swing back to it!) and am now just feeling very, very sad. He was a good friend, he has a wife who loves him, and a responsible job he was good at and found rewarding. It's all gone. It's just... it makes no sense.

I know a number of people have said just drop contact altogether. A week ago that's exactly what I would have said, too. Very black and white. But it doesn't seem so easy now I'm here. But, what's very striking from when he told me is that, whilst he talked at great length about the impact on him and his family from what he's done, he never once mentioned the impact on the children. I don't think he realises they exist. It does feel like I'm grieving the man I knew.

@Clymene I've contacted Lucy Faithfull. Thankyou.

Hi OP. I was literally just thinking about you just now, about the situation you are in.

I think, for me, it would be really important for him to understand the impact upon the children and to show some remorse before I could start to recover any good parts of the relationship.

The reason being, is that you have this person you thought was good and decent, yet if he cannot sympathise with abused children or feel guilty for the part he played in harming them, it shows that he doesn’t have a conscience- and that is terrifying.

Its terrifying to think that someone without a conscience is so able to mimic a person who does have a conscience.

It puts you in a very uneasy situation where you wonder what else he was just mimicking, which you trustingly took to be who he is. It up-ends your sense of reality and any memories you have involving him.

My feeling is that you may need to drop all contact while you sort out your own world. Seeing him will continue to put you in a spin and will prolong the pain. You may find yourself telling yourself lies, compromising your own morals, to justify his actions so that you don’t need to face up to what’s happened.

With some distance you can start to peel apart and separate the good times you had and the memories you enjoy, from this horror - he created. My feeling is, though, once you do step back, you will be reluctant to have anything to do with him.

Something that might help, could be to read this book, written by the daughter of the ‘Bind, Torture & Kill’ (BTK) killer, where she tries to make her sense of her life. The book itself seems like witnessing someone working through the ‘peeling apart’ of her own experiences from who he is.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Serial-Killers-Daughter-Rawson-Kerri/dp/1400201756

Hugs for you ! This is not your fault - and it reminded me of this about police sex offenders...... your friend has groomed all of his friends. How could you spot this? His whole life is a lie.

When I spoke to Sarah Crew, chief constable of Avon and Somerset, in February, she pointed out that corrupt officers often have good relationships with their superiors, “not because the superiors are stupid, but because they’ve been groomed. These are the people who put themselves forward for extra duties, who say nice things.” Crew’s words weren’t meant to excuse senior officers, but to critique the institution as a whole: the way it had been blind to the dangers within.

www.theguardian.com/news/2023/mar/07/one-womans-mission-to-fix-how-the-police-investigate-rape-operation-soteria-betsy-stanko

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.
“I had this. Not a friend, a colleague but a high profile case and more than pictures.“
Me too. In a social care context, enhanced DBS, the lot.
Along with all the questioning and guilt about why I didn't see it. It is indeed a headfuck.
You will likely go through the grief cycle a few times, as you come to terms with losing someone you loved and thought you knew.
Another colleague, much closer to the perp than I was, attending each other's weddings, etc, really struggled to believe it and to deal with it. He was in shock and grieved for a long time, even now will comment about how difficult he found it to believe it of his friend.
I knew the Court reporter, who covered the months long case and was fairly traumatised by what was heard. No doubt in my mind.

The perp went to prison for a long time and is now out. No remorse. I see he and his wife, who “stood by” him about in the small market town where I shop. I have to turn and walk away, as I don't know any other way of handling it.
I think it would have been less awful if he had murdered someone.

There is also the issue that continuing friendship with a paedophile will be looked at askance at your work, too.

Thankyou, everyone, for your comments and support. I keep re-reading them and they are hugely helpful.

I'm feeling tearful and shocky. Want to curl up under a blanket and disengage from the world.

@EndlessTea - I think you've captured it really well. Both the importance of him showing genuine insight and remorse into why this matters, but also in needing me to disengage for a while to process this. He made a comment along the lines of 'I guess I'm going to find out who my real friends are' which, now, feels really manipulative. I just can't reconcile the person who I thought he was - who I would have supported to the ends of the earth - and the person who did this. And not just once. Over and over again.

The reality is the only reason he's 'fessed up is because the police came knocking. Had they not, he'd still be downloading this vile stuff to wank to.

I'm so sorry, OP, what a horrific shock.

Please take care of yourself, you've been horribly shaken and need time to recover. I think disengaging to process is a really good idea.

So sorry you are going through this. The sad fact is that there are so many more dodgy men around than we realise. My next door neighbour turned out to be a convicted child sex offender. I had made him tea and cake - he always asked for a second portion.

These men are often charming and manipulative. My neighbour has now changed his name and is doing a post graduate course in Exeter - I bet none of the people studying with him have any idea of his history.

Hugs OP🌼I have made similar mistakes and been similarly shocked.

Any of "his real friends" need their hard drives checked too.

This is one of those situations where you let go, god I'd even pretend the person was dead so I could grieve them, and move on.

The person you knew IS dead effectively. There's just some horrible, twisted, vile criminal instead.

The person you knew never even existed really.

Don't risk yourself. Don't risk your career.

What a shock. It must be the most incredible mind-fuck for you. I’ve had odd people I liked and trusted turning out to be horrible people, but nothing on this scale or swiftness. I should imagine it will take a long time to process the grief, which will also be linked to difficulty trusting others from now on.

He does sound manipulative with his “now I’ll find out who my friends really are” comment. It’s easy to say walk away, sitting here, but It’s understandable that you instinctively want to help someone who has been a friend for such a long time. I was also raised in a culture where “forgiveness” was considered to be a virtue, but I don’t see, in this case, how you can carry on being any kind of friend to him as the trust is all gone. I think you should give yourself plenty of time and perhaps get some counselling.

I think we don't ever really know people. Obviously not on the scale of men doing this but you only have to look at threads on here where people find out that their best female friend is capable of things they wouldn't have believed.

CommanderSeven · Today 20:26

The person you knew never even existed really.

I think this is a very important point.

I have been through similar.

I want to reply because I actually found it important to go through our conversations and all I'd observed him say and do, asking myself the, "How did I miss this?" question. There was only one niggle I'd had that I could remember, but I didn't credit the quiet alarm within. Now I have more respect for that part of me, listening to my spidey-senses.
It may be that process would only drag you down, and you do need to draw a line and walk away. I had only been friends with him a year or two, so that's quite different to where you're at. But I wanted to share that the intense introspection was (horrible, but) what I needed to do.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I truly am. The person who you believed in was a lie. That's going to take a lot of time to process.

I agree his comment was highly manipulative. He's a conman, frankly.

Take care of yourself and try your best to distract yourself.

I found out my partner looked at photos of children to get off- It's completely screwed with my head. I've gone from disbelief and blaming myself/ guilt for not supporting, guilt for not having known, feeling responsible for the mental state which supposedly caused it. To now feeling deep shame and disgust, dirty and appalled that I chose to make a life with someone like this and have children etc. I would agree these people are master manipulators. I frequently ended up thinking I was the one over reacting in the early days believe it or not. No one would ever guess- I did feel like he was separate people after finding out. Now I just feel the whole thing was a lie and I was fooled for over a decade. Best wishes to you OP- it's a shit position to be in.

@Rageasaurus I don't think he realises they exist. It does feel like I'm grieving the man I knew.

I think both of these points seem really insightful, you quite reasonably assumed that your friend realised that other people were humans with their own needs rights and emotions. You quite reasonably assumed that your friend knew children couldn't consent to sex and sexual activity and that using them for sex and sexual purposes without consent was abuse.

That person never existed. Being really sad that they never existed is a reasonable emotion.

"I'll find out who my real friends are now" umm yes manipulative, and callous. Drop him totally and completely.