Another victim of mixed sex toilets

[BlackeyedSusan]

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-schoolgirl-taken-hospital-after-26418069

Came across this report from one of the cities round here.

Head injury, bruises, boys kicking doors down trying to take photos of girls using the toilets...

What did the stupid woke idiots THINK would happen? Have their brains fallen out so much that they can't remember their own school days.
That poor poor girl.

Again, evidence for this?

Also, it is factually correct to point out that males perpetrate nearly all sexual violence and other forms of violence. That's not sexist to state or discuss. I'd have thought as a feminist you'd have been well aware of the massive issue of male violence.

Please link to the studies or surveys where these arguments come from. In particular, I have not come across a study which would show that 60% of transgender people have been attacked in toilets or dressing rooms.

On transgender people being more likely to be attacked than 'cisgender' people, perhaps, and all such violence is reprehensible. But I would like to understand how this relates to the fact that transgender people are less likely to be victims of homicide than people in general, at least in the US and the UK where I have seen the data, and probably in most European countries and even globally.

The safety of any group should not be at the expense of another.

Of course trans kids need safe spaces too BUT the situation in schools between male and female pupils is not such that mixing in unsupervised areas is a good idea.

I left teaching 10 years ago and even back then I had to step in on many occasions when boys were putting pressure on girls for photos & sexual favours and the way they were treated when they refused was appalling, never mind what they went through if they did! The rise of free porn, especially on phones, has massively affected teen attitudes to sex and what is acceptable.

There are big issues between pupils separate to the trans issue, but it IS the trans issue that is now putting girls into vulnerable spaces with boys and it's only going to get worse.

Schools need mixed AND individual toilets. It's the only common sense way to keep everyone safe.

Yes. Most men and boys are not a danger to women and girls, but a minority of men and boys are. They are also a danger to other boys and men, but a special danger in sexual violence towards women and girls.

Looked at in a different way, almost all physical violence women and girls experience is from male people, and statistics show a clear sex difference in this.

Girls are not going to kick toilet doors in so that they can take pictures of urinating or defecating boys. Or if it happens it's rarer than hen's teeth. Most boys are not going to do that to girls, either, but a minority will. Yet almost all girls will be terrorised by that minority, or at least the awareness of it.

It's quite obvious that the Mumsnet sphere are very anti-trans and it can appear, especially with posts like this, that people are blaming transgender people for the plight of women and the danger that they are put under. It is also quite clear that people who responded completely ignored what I actually said in their hurry to accuse me of condoning the mixed bathrooms. I was just pointing out that transgender pupils are also in danger of attack and that getting the bathrooms and changing areas right for everyone is crucial.

This tells me you are at the very beginning of your feminist journey compared to posters here and probably quite young.
Come back when you understand class analysis.

It’s interesting to me that you somehow overlooked the posts from three separate contributors on the first page of this discussion which shoe-horned criticism of transgender children into this topic.

I don’t think it is deliberate. You are probably just unable to notice comments that are in alignment with your internal bias.

It was deliberate because they were oblique references, tangential and irrelevant to the main point. Forcing this into a discussion that centres trans people is off topic and unnecessary.

This is about girls who are currently being physically assaulted, quite horrifically, whilst using mixed sex toilets. They are not safe from male violence. The solution is obvious to anyone that can see girls as deserving of safety and consideration.

I haven’t seen anyone getting angry with you either, sladurch but you must know that dropping (pretty dodgy looking) stats on this site isn’t going to go unchallenged.

Anyone who’s been around this board for more than five minutes has seen TRA-supportive ‘facts’ thrown around like monkey shit in a zoo. On those occasions when you can actually find the source material, it invariably turns out to have been gathered via an uncontrolled survey of a vanishingly small and self-selecting sample set.

I’m also sorry to hear that you lost a friend to suicide. I’m not sure I see their relevance to the thread, though.

Sarduch you seem to be suggesting the same as others?

You don't like mixed sex toilets - none of us do

You think that all kids need to be protected- most of us would wholeheartedly agree.

The only difference would be (and I'm not sure you do think this) that if a male identified as a firl they should use female facilities and vice versa?

I am not sure how it is anti trans to not throw girls under a bus in the pursuit of trans equality.

@Sladurche I hope you'll appreciate that I specifically mentioned that you agreed with the solutions being discussed.

Are you really suggesting that a thread about a school girl getting injured by a boy in mixed sex toilets shouldn't be started because it's "anti trans" and "angry"?

Unbelievable really. 🙄

It's quite obvious that the Mumsnet sphere are very anti-trans and it can appear, especially with posts like this, that people are blaming transgender people for the plight of women and the danger that they are put under. It is also quite clear that people who responded completely ignored what I actually said in their hurry to accuse me of condoning the mixed bathrooms. I was just pointing out that transgender pupils are also in danger of attack and that getting the bathrooms and changing areas right for everyone is crucial.

We talk about girls and women and the impact of policies made on the back of Gender Ideology on women and girls. Women and girls are being put in danger by this ideology and the blame for that lies squarely at the feet of those who promote, enact, defend and support this ideology. The girl we are discussing has been harmed due to the imposition of this ideology, do you think the school introduced Unisex/Mixed toilets on a whim? They did it at the behest of powerful Lobby Groups so they can wave their inclusive flag.

I was just pointing out that transgender pupils are also in danger of attack

As ever anything that impacts girls pupils can never be discussed without some posters insisting transgender pupils have it worse.

It's ridiculous.

I bloody hope these incidents impact policy. This should never have happened

Something has gone very badly wrong in schools, and the attempts to shut women up on threads like this are not part of any solution.

Solutions for U18 students who find it problematic to use the toilets provided for their biological & legal sex, is a completely separate issue from girls not having access to single sex facilities in this school.

I mean, those students will require sympathetic handling, obviously.

But they are not really relevant to a discussion about a girl being cracked in the face because a boy 'donkey kicked' the door in a unisex toilet. Nobody in this scenario appears to have anything resembling a 'trans identity'.

This conversation is about GIRLS.

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
2012 No. 1943
EDUCATION, ENGLAND AND WALES
The School Premises (England) Regulations 2012

Any requirement that anything provided under these Regulations must be “suitable” means that it must be suitable for the pupils in respect of whom it is provided, having regard to their ages, numbers and sex and any special requirements they may have.
Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over must be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time.

How the fuck has it been allowed to become an “on going problem.”

Yep. For any lurkers, Google 'mumsnet and third spaces' and see how many times they have been discussed on here and dismissed by TRA's as 'transphobic'.

But to reiterate the poster I've quoted, this particular discussion is about girls, specifically these specific instances of girls being harmed by boys in mixed sex toilets.

Protecting girls and women from MVAWG is nothing to do with 'trans' and it's absurd to say women on Mumsnet are 'anti-trans' for talking about safeguarding and minimising risk.

This is the type of nonsense argument that ends up putting Isla Bryson in Cornton Vale.

And also the assertion that "males are a danger to girls" and "people with penises" is pretty sexist towards men

It also happens to be true. You're not seeing girls in mixed toilets breaking down toilet doors or filming the boys with hidden cameras.

That's what I was wondering. The assault is a criminal offence. Filming the girl at the toilet is a fetish as well as being illegal . He may be putting the photos online-also illegal.
The child protection team should be all over this as well as the police. Expulsion should be a given.

Story now picked up by Daily Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/15/boys-go-take-photos-girls-schools-unisex-loos/

@Bunshaped thank you for sharing - that’s really interesting. I had a feeling that this was the case but hadn’t seen it in black and white. It’s not something that gets talked about much but it’s good to see they’ve clearly laid out their stall.

Interestingly our local girls school now has a significant number of trans boys - but that’s a whole other issue 😢