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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They/them pronouns in KS1 book

61 replies

AnneGarland444 · 09/03/2023 18:11

I have just been reading a Twinkl book aimed at KS1 children, when I came across the sentence 'Robin got bird poo in their hair and on their boots!' My 7 year old pupil found this very confusing. I have emailed Twinkl about it.
Am I over-reacting, or is this completely unnecessary for a book aimed at such young children? English grammar is tricky enough, without complications like this!

OP posts:
Heckythump1 · 23/03/2023 12:19

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 09:10

Heckythump1 · Today 08:56
Pretty certain my 7 year old wouldn't notice or be confused and it's perfectly acceptable grammar anyway
Also absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of inclusivity and opportunity to discuss differences in people

What differences in people, are being shown by the child character Robin who is described in the third person as ‘they’ in the story?

What sort of people are being excluded and what sort of people included?

What discussion would you be initiating with the children reading this if you were their teacher?

How would you set about fully explaining the use of pronouns to describe material reality versus the use of pronouns to describe the senses of self of 4-9 year olds?

Would you bother with teaching them the grammar of when to use ‘they’ instead of ‘she’, ‘he’ and ‘it’?

It is good your 7 year old understands the general meaning.

If my child picked up on the use of 'they/them' in the story (which she probably wouldn't and I can't imagine many little kids would) and questioned it, I would simply explain to her some people are female, some are male and some people feel female and male. She'd probably not bat an eyelid, or be remotely bothered.
If things like this come up with my child, they're used as a learning opportunity

Heckythump1 · 23/03/2023 12:20

Oops, pressed post to soon.
If things like this come up with my child, they're used a learning opportunity to help her understand the world around her and people in it. I'd like her to grow up with understanding and compassion for all regardless of how they indentify.
That's my opinion and it clearly isn't shared by many people here.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 12:38

I saw an interview with Twinkl’s founder and CEO and it may be that they act almost as a platform to a huge number of educational resources provided up to age 18, rather than being just a single creator of the resources.

So perhaps the way stories are written with a view to trans and non-binary identity ideology can vary. On the introductory website, for example, they show a normal resource with a girl and a grandmother for Little Red Riding Hood, and a girl Goldilocks for G and the Three Bears.

But I think you cannot really know unless you spend money to join, so it is difficult to be sure what it is like over all.

However they are in a Stonewall partnership, with Stonewall itself producing Stonewall/Twinkl resources too.
I am not sure if Twinkl has also signed up to the Stonewall championship as a filter of all their other resources, in addition to having them as producers of content.

They/them pronouns in KS1 book
ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 12:47

Heckythump1 · Today 12:20Oops, pressed post to soon.
If things like this come up with my child, they're used a learning opportunity to help her understand the world around her and people in it. I'd like her to grow up with understanding and compassion for all regardless of how they indentify.
That's my opinion and it clearly isn't shared by many people here.

Not teaching gender identity ideology to a young child has nothing to do with a lack of compassion.

What I’d call a lack of compassion, cruelty in fact, is adults hinting to children that there may be a mismatch between their bodies and the ‘real’ them. Children are fundamentally a girl or a boy whatever the colours or activities they like.

If children are taught to treat other children with respect and kindness even if they seem different in their clothes, hair, skin colour, abilities, what they enjoy, there is no need to worry.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 12:48

Sorry, my post began “Not teaching..”

ResisterRex · 23/03/2023 12:57

Heckythump1 · 23/03/2023 12:20

Oops, pressed post to soon.
If things like this come up with my child, they're used a learning opportunity to help her understand the world around her and people in it. I'd like her to grow up with understanding and compassion for all regardless of how they indentify.
That's my opinion and it clearly isn't shared by many people here.

Sounds awfully like performative parenting topped off with a "aren't I better than you, I'm so compassionate"

I'd like my DC to grow up knowing what sex they are and that stereotypes don't limit them, that they don't have to lie about what they see in front of them, without adult ideologies and campaigns being foisted on them, and knowing how to read English, as well as how it's written and spoken.

Crazy stuff eh.

Heckythump1 · 23/03/2023 13:04

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 12:47

Heckythump1 · Today 12:20Oops, pressed post to soon.
If things like this come up with my child, they're used a learning opportunity to help her understand the world around her and people in it. I'd like her to grow up with understanding and compassion for all regardless of how they indentify.
That's my opinion and it clearly isn't shared by many people here.

Not teaching gender identity ideology to a young child has nothing to do with a lack of compassion.

What I’d call a lack of compassion, cruelty in fact, is adults hinting to children that there may be a mismatch between their bodies and the ‘real’ them. Children are fundamentally a girl or a boy whatever the colours or activities they like.

If children are taught to treat other children with respect and kindness even if they seem different in their clothes, hair, skin colour, abilities, what they enjoy, there is no need to worry.

That is entirely in your opinion, in the same way my views are my opinion.

Tinypetunia · 23/03/2023 13:14

Ridiculous of Twinkle. There is no need to try to foster adult gender ideas onto children. Most children prefer to know if a character is male or female, they don't have to decide for themselves. The use of 'their' indicates plural, so no wonder it's confusing.

Tinypetunia · 23/03/2023 13:19

If things like this come up with my child, they're used a learning opportunity to help her understand the world around her and people in it. I'd like her to grow up with understanding and compassion for all regardless of how they indentify.
That's my opinion and it clearly isn't shared by many people here

Things like this shouldn't be coming up at all. The vast majority of people, at least those who haven't jumped on the social media bandwagon, don't 'identify' as anything. They're either male or female. I really don't care if that's politically incorrect. Why should the whole world have to adapt, when the number of people involved is minimal?

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 13:31

Tinypetunia · Today 13:14
Ridiculous of Twinkle

You have spelled that too well. It is “Twinkl”.

Tinypetunia · 23/03/2023 13:55

ScrollingLeaves · 23/03/2023 13:31

Tinypetunia · Today 13:14
Ridiculous of Twinkle

You have spelled that too well. It is “Twinkl”.

Oops!

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