They/them pronouns in KS1 book

[AnneGarland444]

I have just been reading a Twinkl book aimed at KS1 children, when I came across the sentence 'Robin got bird poo in their hair and on their boots!' My 7 year old pupil found this very confusing. I have emailed Twinkl about it.
Am I over-reacting, or is this completely unnecessary for a book aimed at such young children? English grammar is tricky enough, without complications like this!

as has already been pointed out and as I'm sure you already know, 'they' in that context is only used where you're making it clear that you don't know the sex of the person in question. it can be used interchangeably with 'he or she', e.g. 'when my successor has been recruited, he or she will have some difficult decisions to make'. never, 'please ask Lesley if he or she would like a cup of tea'.

well it wouldn't be one for really little kids, it's just not an important enough usage, but I suppose German kids learn er/sie/es from the cradle.

Twinkl has its faults, but if the school is using the Twinkl spelling scheme then those words are straight from the national curriculum appendix. Twinkl didn't decide on the bonkers words!

@Pinkflipflop85 interesting, thank you, I hadn’t considered. I’m still not sure what 8yo needs to spell antiperspirant or biannual (which is not even a useful word)

It's truly nonsensical.

Our year 2 children had squabble and quarrel recently.

Bit of a thread derail there, sorry!

My children were fluent in three languages before they learned how to read. So I think it would be a mistake to that think young children are incapable of learning different modes of grammar - unless they are dealing with a developmental delay. Young brains are near the peak of their neuroplasticity.

But of course that wouldn't let you become purple with the RAGE now, would it?

A Key Stage 1 child would not know when to use ‘they’ rather than ‘he’ or ‘she’ in a grammatical way.

As it turns out, from the answer the OP received, the intention was not to teach grammar anyway but to remove ‘he’ and ‘she’ from the child’s use of language for ideological reasons.

Maybe Twinkl are trying to be inclusive of trans and non-binary folk. We exist so why is it an issue to use appropriate pronouns? Or maybe they've left the gender undetermined so all children reading the story can see themselves in the character because they don't have to think of them in a specific gender.

I don't know which book this is so I can't really give an opinion, though if it's just portraying an ambiguous character who the child can decide if they think is male or female I don't think that would bother me.

I do have to disagree with posters claiming Twinkl is rubbish in general though. The wealth of resources on the site is amazing. And if you want something that's not there and you email them they will try to make it for you. And I won't forget that when the schools shut in March 2020 they opened up all their resources to everyone for free. For months! I think they're an amazing company.

Yes agree, terribly confusing for very young children.

Er/sie/es have meaning for German-speaking children. They hear and learn to use them in context for several years before they learn to read.

The nonsensical pronouns beginning with an x as mentioned above by a PP refer to nothing meaningful to a small child. As such, using them in reading material aimed at seven-year-olds is nothing but an attempt at imposing an ideology on young children.

So @puffyisgood , you’re making a moot point here.

@fozwomble yes, we all agree. This entire thread is about making sure Twinkl is using the correct pronouns.

Another moot point. Being fluent in 20 or however many languages before learning to read would still mean that the pronouns used in those languages until that point are familiar and meaningful because they’ve been heard and spoken countless times within context.

I don't go purple. I just reach for red pen when children get pronouns wrong.

OP, it's not clear from the reply you received who Twinkl are trying to be inclusive of. They don't mention trans or non-binary in their reply. It's also perfectly possible that they may be trying to be inclusive of both girls and boys by using a name and pronoun that mean both boys and girls could identify with it.

'Their' is not incorrect grammar in English when we either don't know or don't wish to stress the sex of the person we're talking about. It's standard English usage. Nothing wrong with introducing a child to it. All adults use it naturally.

Given Twinkl haven't mentioned trans/non-binary, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Save your energy to protest the actual issues. This isn't one.

Maybe Twinkl are trying to be inclusive of trans and non-binary folk. We exist so why is it an issue to use appropriate pronouns? Or maybe they've left the gender undetermined so all children reading the story can see themselves in the character because they don't have to think of them in a specific gender*.

This is excluding boys and girls. A child is a boy or a girl, human life produces boys and girls, whatever clothes or activities they like.

The children may also read a nature book about lions, for example, or any other animals and plants and how they live. If they are made to ‘they’ them they’ll make nonsense of it.

At school children are not supposed to be indoctrinated with ideologies.

Maybe Twinkl are trying to be inclusive of trans and non-binary folk. We exist so why is it an issue to use appropriate pronouns?

5 year olds exist. Their learning of one of the hardest languages there is to learn, should not and never be a vehicle for ideology. They have a right to education, they're not for grabs or for indoctrination.

xxyzz · Today 07:57
OP, it's not clear from the reply you received who Twinkl are trying to be inclusive of. They don't mention trans or non-binary in their reply. It's also perfectly possible that they may be trying to be inclusive of both girls and boys by using a name and pronoun that mean both boys and girls could identify with it.

fozwomble · Yesterday 23:56
Or maybe they've left the gender undetermined so all children reading the story can see themselves in the character because they don't have to think of them in a specific gender.

The OP said this about the reply
If anyone is interested - I finally received a reply this week, saying inclusivity is more important than grammar!

I can see what you both mean, and you may be right, but I think Twinkl would have put this a little differently if they had wanted to suggest the use of ‘they’ was to make it so the character Robin could be either a boy or a girl depending on what the child reading it wanted. Also, given the evident concern of the OP in her letter, they might have assured her that ‘they’ used in the story is not intended to mean a child identified as non-binary or transgender.

Apart from anything else, I don’t think they would have said ‘being inclusive was more important than grammar’, as they could have explained the grammar was correct given this context.

But if you spoke to the headteacher, you know who they are- they aren't a general, theoretical person.
So it would be perfectly correct and natural to have a conversation with someone else, who doesn't know your headteacher:

"I spoke to the headteacher on Monday."
"What did they say about [x issue]?"
"She said she would look into it."

But you would never say:
"I spoke to Mr Smith, the headteacher. They said they would look into it."

And in the Twinkle book, Robin is a known, named character.

(This still wouldn't induce rage in me, but I would think it very unhelpful to have incorrect language in a resource which is supposed to help young children to learn to read said language.)

Pretty certain my 7 year old wouldn't notice or be confused and it's perfectly acceptable grammar anyway. Also absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of inclusivity and opportunity to discuss differences in people.

But it’s not just about your child, is it? The OP said HER child was confused.

OP: well done for contacting Twinkl. I remember threads from several years ago about Twinkl having an “interesting” background. I don’t have time to check now and don’t want to derail the thread, but what I learned at the time was enough for me to avoid these resources like the plague.

I had the same with Twinkl, the reply k finally got from someone senior was showed it was clear they have taken an ideological stance within their company so every resource has to be checked for traces of this non-scientific nonsense if you're going to use them. I just stopped using them.

Just to clarify - they did specifically mention non-binary - I have attached screenshots of their email. Apologies if I did not make it clear.

Heckythump1 · Today 08:56
Pretty certain my 7 year old wouldn't notice or be confused and it's perfectly acceptable grammar anyway
Also absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of inclusivity and opportunity to discuss differences in people

What differences in people, are being shown by the child character Robin who is described in the third person as ‘they’ in the story?

What sort of people are being excluded and what sort of people included?

What discussion would you be initiating with the children reading this if you were their teacher?

How would you set about fully explaining the use of pronouns to describe material reality versus the use of pronouns to describe the senses of self of 4-9 year olds?

Would you bother with teaching them the grammar of when to use ‘they’ instead of ‘she’, ‘he’ and ‘it’?

It is good your 7 year old understands the general meaning.

AnneGarland444 · Today 09:09
Thank you for the screen shots.

That clears up a lot: their aim is to teach gender identity ideology to very young children.

‘TWINKL’ from an educational materials company is evidence their reading material ought to be avoided.

You should send this example to Safe Schools Alliance, AnneGarland444.