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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK Ice Hockey - 'transgender policy' - what could possibly go wrong?

71 replies

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 10:45

www.icehockeyuk.co.uk/transgender-policy/

A policy that one can admire for its certitude, if not much else.

Good fucking god, who wrote this nonsense?!

'Deliberate use of inappropriate names and pronouns amounts to harassment.'

'Titles such as Mx may be requested, and are already appearing in, for instance, Passports'

'If an individual has a GRC, any person learning of a that individual’s trans history, while working in an ‘official capacity’ – such as a manager or office staff – would commit a criminal offence if they passed this information on, without the explicit permission of the person concerned.'

'It is, in any case, good practice to treat trans people as though they have a GRC, and maintain absolute confidentiality'

'Where a person changes gender role, whilst still being an active, playing member (or a member of staff)[3], all documents relating to the person’s previous history, name, gender status or other personal details should be kept separately from other club paperwork, in a locked safe or drawer, in double envelopes which must be sealed, marked confidential, and only accessed by a named person, agreed by the trans person, for instance, the Club manager, whose name should appear on the outer envelope'

'players, staff and spectators ... must be accommodated in men’s and women’s toilets and changing areas, according to the gender role in which they are living full-time'

'When teams are staying away from home overnight, the usual practice is for two people to share a room. It is also usually acceptable in situations where one of the pair is trans, as long as the trans person is in agreement. This means trans boys/men will share with one other boy/man, and vice versa. The manager will have responsibility for ensuring that a sensible choice of responsible individuals is made. For those under 16, the views of parents should be taken into account'

Later on, the policy suggests that safety should be taken into account and acknowledges sex differences, but given that any mention of anyone's sex or gender identity is to be buried in radiation-proof secret lead-lined safes 200 leagues beneath the sea, how on earth would this be implemented?

If a big, beefy male decides they wants to play with the girls, how do they delicately mention the safety aspect without risking aforementioned heinous criminal wrongthink?

Wonder no more! A helpful hypothetical situation is demonstrated by 'Martha':

'Case study: Martha had recently transitioned. She had played ice-hockey as a man and the men’s team regarded her as a good, but not outstanding player. During the first year following her transition, she was more focussed on dealing with her work situation, and she temporary stopped playing. As things settled down in her life, she wanted to play ice-hockey again, and approached the women’s team manager. The manager said that the usual process was to have a trial with the women’s team. The women’s team captain was fine with this, but some of the other players objected and one asked if she had a gender recognition certificate. The manager said, “I don’t know, and I’m not going to ask. It would be a breach of her privacy and it’s not relevant”. The manager and the captain, insisted that it was only fair to let Martha try out for the team. Martha’s trial showed that her standard of play was considered good enough to be a team member, but she was certainly not the best player. Several other woman played to a higher standard. She joined the team, and the matter was never raised again.'

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ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 10:45

A previouis thread, for illustration of what can happen in real life when a male joins a female ice hockey team:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4694389-lets-try-mixed-sex-ice-hockey

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/03/2023 10:51

🙄
Written as usual by the self interested and promoted by the useful idiots.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/03/2023 10:54

I particularly like the fact that sharing a room with a member of the opposite sex is acceptable if the trans person is OK with this. The woman a transwoman is sharing with has no say.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/03/2023 10:54

'If an individual has a GRC, any person learning of a that individual’s trans history, while working in an ‘official capacity’ – such as a manager or office staff – would commit a criminal offence if they passed this information on, without the explicit permission of the person concerned.'

'It is, in any case, good practice to treat trans people as though they have a GRC, and maintain absolute confidentiality'

This is a big problem with the GRC.

Pumpkin20222 · 05/03/2023 11:01

At least safety, in terms of collisions, is mentioned. Agree that with all the privacy/acceptance guidance it may still be very difficult to act sensibly.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/03/2023 11:09

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/03/2023 10:54

I particularly like the fact that sharing a room with a member of the opposite sex is acceptable if the trans person is OK with this. The woman a transwoman is sharing with has no say.

This is the message that's embedded in this ideology - that the wishes, rights and safety of women & girls are always irrelevant.

Soontobe60 · 05/03/2023 11:16

My son IL plays roller hockey. When he’s in full gear skating at full speed it’s frightening! He’s had a broken leg, broken arm, frozen collar bone and concussion through collisions with opponents. Standard stuff. There’s no way on this planet that he should be playing against women if he decided he was a girl now!

MissPollysFitDolly · 05/03/2023 11:19

Ice Hockey UK have an equality policy and an anti-bullying policy. And a separate transgender policy. Talk about a sacred caste.

As for the policy itself, what a load of crazy nonsense. No care at all for women and girls.

Grammarnut · 05/03/2023 11:23

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/03/2023 10:54

I particularly like the fact that sharing a room with a member of the opposite sex is acceptable if the trans person is OK with this. The woman a transwoman is sharing with has no say.

Always this. Women and girls are treated as non-people with no say in what is a safeguarding issue as well as one of dignity and privacy.

Misstache · 05/03/2023 11:24

Lmao at the “Martha” example (as if any TW would choose a name like Martha. It would be Belle or Lilly or Raquel or something.) “Plenty of the cis women ALSO had facial hair, deep voices, broad shoulders and were 6’3” with size 16 skates. Literally NO ONE could tell.” I love the fanfiction that “oh, Martha was good but PLENTY of cis women were better so no one ever mentioned it. In fact, she took a year off so she was at a disadvantage because women never take off time for things like pregnancy, caring for elderly family members, caring for a sick or disabled child, moving with their partner, illness, etc.” Idk, did the CIS WOMEN mention lady penis in the dressing room?

Jesko · 05/03/2023 11:27

Ice hockey regularly descends into full on punches being thrown; a huge guy punching a woman in the head is likely to be very serious for the female player.

Fuck sake.

Elizaazile · 05/03/2023 11:31

Doesn't the girls' consent even matter?? And the girls on the opposing teams! They could get seriously hurt.

ZeldaB · 05/03/2023 11:45

Elizaazile · 05/03/2023 11:31

Doesn't the girls' consent even matter?? And the girls on the opposing teams! They could get seriously hurt.

No, it doesn’t. It’s important to understand that in the mind of trans activists, the feelings of the transperson are all that matter. They do not do empathy. They do not want girls to have any dignity or privacy or freedom of speech, and certainly not any physical safety.

To the trans activist, everyone else is a kind of unimportant background figure, who exist solely to serve and worship transpeople, the more unwillingly so, the better.

NecessaryScene · 05/03/2023 12:04

That's amazing. I'm assuming from how batshit it is that it must be some sort of circa-2017 document put together by someone Stonewall-associated who's never played a sport let alone ice hockey, and no-one actually involved in the game had any input.

The bit about the Olympics rules ("two years of hormone suppression and full reassignment surgery") suggests it's pretty old - that was the rules until 2015, I believe.

Motorina · 05/03/2023 12:35

When teams are staying away from home overnight, the usual practice is for two people to share a room. It is also usually acceptable in situations where one of the pair is trans, as long as the trans person is in agreement.

There's a word for situations where only one of the two parties involved consents.

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 13:04

Yeah, it reads as a sort of tra wishlist circa 2018.

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SlipperyLizard · 05/03/2023 13:13

“the matter was never raised again”.

They all lived happily ever after, except the women who were made unsafe by playing against a male, the women whose privacy and dignity was compromised by being forced to share a changing room (or a hotel room!) with a male, and the women who lost a place on the team so that a male wouldn’t be made sad.

Helleofabore · 05/03/2023 13:20

'When teams are staying away from home overnight, the usual practice is for two people to share a room. It is also usually acceptable in situations where one of the pair is trans, as long as the trans person is in agreement. This means trans boys/men will share with one other boy/man, and vice versa. The manager will have responsibility for ensuring that a sensible choice of responsible individuals is made. For those under 16, the views of parents should be taken into account'

Fuck! I mean the policy seems to have many issues but this! Fuck this is a nightmare. The parent’s view ‘should be taken into account’!!!

Yes… what on earth could go wrong here.

AmuseBish · 05/03/2023 13:27

Do titles such as Mrs, Mr, Mx appear in passports?

What is "trans history" - are they conflating trans with "being the opposite sex"? That excludes non-binary people and agender people.

I don't have time to go on but it's not a great start.

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 13:42

Do titles such as Mrs, Mr, Mx appear in passports?

No. We know this for sure due to someone recently popping up insistently on a thread to say that Mx was regularly used on passports. So we checked. It's not allowed in the UK.

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ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 13:45

Helleofabore · 05/03/2023 13:20

'When teams are staying away from home overnight, the usual practice is for two people to share a room. It is also usually acceptable in situations where one of the pair is trans, as long as the trans person is in agreement. This means trans boys/men will share with one other boy/man, and vice versa. The manager will have responsibility for ensuring that a sensible choice of responsible individuals is made. For those under 16, the views of parents should be taken into account'

Fuck! I mean the policy seems to have many issues but this! Fuck this is a nightmare. The parent’s view ‘should be taken into account’!!!

Yes… what on earth could go wrong here.

I think that means that if 'Martha' was going away on an overnight trip with girls under 16, 'Martha' would be okay to share a room with girls under 16 so long as said girls' parents were consulted.

However of course no mention should or could be made of biological sex or trans status. So I'm not quite sure how that conversation would go.

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ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 13:46

SlipperyLizard · 05/03/2023 13:13

“the matter was never raised again”.

They all lived happily ever after, except the women who were made unsafe by playing against a male, the women whose privacy and dignity was compromised by being forced to share a changing room (or a hotel room!) with a male, and the women who lost a place on the team so that a male wouldn’t be made sad.

It was that phrase that really got me, tbh.

'It was never spoken of again' with very loud subtext of LEST YE BE SENT TO THE GULAG heavily implied.

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Motorina · 05/03/2023 13:55

@ArabellaScott I think it's worse than that. 15 year old Martha can share a room with 15 year old Mary, as long as Martha's parents are happy.

Mary's parents cannot be told about Martha's male past.

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2023 13:58

Geez the fuck O.

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JellySaurus · 05/03/2023 13:59

'players, staff and spectators ... must be accommodated in men’s and women’s toilets and changing areas, according to the gender role in which they are living full-time'

That is shockingly transphobic towards enby transpeople, or flipflopper transpeople who are boygender some days and ladygender other days.