'Concern' over WRU trans women ban in female-only games'

[wantmorenow]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-64825491

"Welsh ministers wrote to the Welsh Rugby Union expressing "concern" about its ban on transgender women competing in female-only games.
Their letter stated "inclusion" should be the "starting point" for decisions on transgender people's participation in any part of society."

Why is it so often these people giving away women's ability to compete in sports are actually bloody women!

Dawn Bowden, deputy sports minister, and Hannah Blythyn, deputy minister for social partnership are the women in question here

And why do they not see that 'inclusion' of male people means 'exclusion' of female people?!!

Errr n

No. Inclusion must not be the starting point. Safety must be the starting point, followed by fairness to all. Then we can have a conversation about inclusion.

Well from a legal standpoint I would say that it will be a lot more expensive and problematic for the wru to go against safety than inclusion so hopefully this will be a non starter (ianal)

It's quite incredible to see woman MPs openly campaigning for women to be put at risk of severe harm in a contact sport like rugby.
... although there is Lisa Nandy with her enthusiasm for placing male rapists in prison cells with women so not sure why I'm surprised 🙄

I suppose it's consistent with the Welsh Government's position and blind faith that "Transwomen are women" is the starting point for absolutely everything. The ignorance and naivety in their letter to the WRU though! I also got the impression that they were reluctant to do anything to intervene when the revelations about the treatment of women - players and staff - in the WRU was drawn to their attention.

So, Welsh Government will put pressure on the Welsh Rugby Union to ask that trans-identified males are given privileges that put their team mates at risk of serious injury, but won't lift a finger when actual women are being subjected to misogyny, harassment and rape jokes in the same organisation. Everything is about cultural change to force team 'trans inclusion' to the detriment of other protected groups, but never actual cultural change to make sure that women are treated fairly and protected from harassment and physical harm. I'm guessing that the small clique of activists involved in the LGBTQ+ Action Plan (including the civil servant leading on it) will have put pressure on them to write; but surely they would look at the rationale for the policy change in order to avoid making complete arses of themselves. Blythyn and Bowden are prize idiots for signing. I hope it's obvious to Welsh Labour members by now that anyone who predicted that Blythyn could be a future party leader in Wales was having a laugh.

Have these useful idiots made no comment on the awful events at WRU EnfysPreseli ?:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64412891

Bowden and Blythen seem to lack both sense and empathy and any understanding of the nature of rugby, too. They question why transmen (i.e. women) are treated differently from transwomen (i.e. men) and do not seem able to comprehend the safety problem with allowing male-bodied people who have gone through male puberty to play a contact sport with women (and the same would go, of course, with transmen playing in the men's game). And maybe they'd like to support actual women who play rugby, rather than pretend dress-ups?

We have women’s sports deliberately to exclude people.

Perhaps a rugby club could invite them along to training. With some transwomen playing as well of course so they can show their support to them in person.

Jesus fucking Christ. What is wrong with these politicians?

I'd pay to watch this.

This.

Welcome to the intellectually-challenged world of the ruling Labour party in Wales.

Just in case anyone thinks voting Starmer's crowd in at the next election will improve the lot of women.☹️

From what I've read and the conversations I've had sport seems to be where the whole charade falls down. I'm yet to speak to anyone (granted I tend to err on the side of caution because these discussions are always fraught with pitfalls) who genuinely thinks a sport, particularly a rough + contact sport like rugby, should be 'inclusive' or in other words fair game for all.

So when Labour say they will ''streamline the GR process and preserve sex based rights'' what do they actually mean?

Because they are total and utter fuckwits?

I thought nowhere could be more stupid than Scotland, but Wales is doing its best.

They mean self-ID and TWAW. Stuff actual women.

If inclusion is the starting point then I want to be included in the basketball team. I am 5ft tall but loved playing.

I am excluded from the teams and excluded from playing a game I love.

I got a pram full of toys, tell me where do I throw them?

They are included, they can play with all the other men.

This.

If there are toilets, prisons, sporting categories and music awards categories for male and female people, everyone is already included because everyone is one of those two things. (I'm looking at you, Sam Smith.)

This drives me absolutely potty. My daughter will have to leave her (currently mixed) rugby team when she's 12 because girls and boys separate teams at that point. FOR SAFETY. If she's unsafe playing 12 year old boys, women are sure as hell unsafe playing 30 year old men.

Very depressing.

I have.

They actually said they would prefer women to miss out on playing sport rather than exclude TW.

This is a woman who isn't particularly activist normally, and is generally sensible about stuff, but is quite cool for school. I was gobsmacked. The only people who agreed with me that we needed conversations about the clash between women's rights and TWs' rights were Daily Mail reading types, who I normally disagree with about most things.

Having played fun mixed netball once years ago I'm totally against this. One guy got the hump with me for marking him and deliberately elbowed me in the ribs. I was in pain for days. Netball is nowhere near as dangerous as rugby. This guy wasn't a particularly big or sporty guy, either, in fact was shorter than me. Men have naturally greater strength than women in their skeletons and muscles, even if they have less testosterone than the average male.

Having played fun mixed netball once years ago I'm totally against this. One guy got the hump with me for marking him and deliberately elbowed me in the ribs. I was in pain for days. Netball is nowhere near as dangerous as rugby. This guy wasn't a particularly big or sporty guy, either, in fact was shorter than me. Men have naturally greater strength than women in their skeletons and muscles, even if they have less testosterone than the average male.

Back in my youth I even opted out of snowball fights with men, after a couple of bad experiences!