Interviewing 'woke' students about TW and prisons

[beastlyslumber]

Quite interesting to hear what people think and how incredibly confused they are.

The woman saying if you fight hard enough you should get what you want thinks those people who audition for X factor but are rubbish so they go off on one with the energy of a thousand suns should get a recording contract and that if you fight to get into a house and live there you should get to live there over the people already living there who simply bought it and didn't fight?

The girl talking about if you ‘fought so hard ‘ to become another gender you ought to live among that gender (ie the opposite sex), did seem to get what a terrible outcome this would most likely have for incarcerated transmen.

The caution and care in talking about these matters has been inculcated, you have to used hushed tones as if you're referring to God, and about with the same degree of expected respect.

Just having left what became the duck and cheese thread after nothing more sensible or interesting turned up to discuss; the main beef of those with strong feelings about gender ideology was anger at the disrespect of women. In how they talked- without hushed, careful delicacy and absolute centering of T people's experience. That women just talked. Were blunt. Treated those posters and the matters in front of them as they treat all matters and talk in all situations. They failed to genuflect in fact.

Hence a child of 20 scolding women for their 'brazenness' in looking at (choice of pronoun uncertain, chosen identity varied a bit through the thread). With a strong belief that ordinary women have no business LOOKING directly at their betters without respect and deference due.

That child has been encouraged and supported in this rather startling expectation of others, and is continually shocked and disappointed at the lack of indulgence in the dramatic double standards of what they feel owed and feel they ow to others.

ScrollingLeaves · Today 13:18
The girl talking about if you ‘fought so hard ‘ to become another gender you ought to live among that gender (ie the opposite sex), did seem to get what a terrible outcome this would most likely have for incarcerated transmen

I meant to say she did NOT seem to get what a terrible outcome this would most likely be for transmen, and she had no idea either about the opposite scenario regarding what it would be like for women to have male prisoners ( with transwoman identity) living among them.

If they are random-ish group of students then I think most of them did OK. They are genuinely grappling with the problem and thinking on their feet and it's not a simple problem. Most of us have decided that only a very simple solution works but we didn't leap straight to that answer either - well I know I didn't.

It's also striking how embarrassed and hesitant they all are.

A lot of their hesitation and confusion was around language. Even the young man who knew the difference between sex and gender got confused about what sex a "transwoman" is.

That awful mess around language has a lot to answer for. And yes, the mess was more or less deliberate. There's "no debate" when there's no clear language.

The people saying TWAW simply don’t really see female prisons are real, vulnerable people.

Well, I didn't either, especially not the vulnerable bit, until I listened to Rhona Hotchkiss, the ex prison governor whose speech in Alloa 2021 (it's on YouTube) should be compulsory listening for anyone with even the vaguest interest in gender, prisons or self-id. I probably bang on about this too much but she only takes 18 minutes to hit most of the important issues dead centre.

And there's a lot of misinformation out there. Even the interviewer himself did say that people (men) could have a vagina and cervix installed, I'd kind-of accept vagina, but cervix? He urgently needs a sex education! But he did build up towards some tough questions a times.

Well, I say "most"... maybe "most" is an exaggeration. "Some"

My 14 year old told me that I could be sent to prison for mocking Sam smith’s “fisherthem” and using he/him pronouns. Because you have to BE KIND mum. With two gender critical parents and gay older brother and who gets very upset about “transing the gay away” school is the only place filling his head with this stuff.

although we’re in Scotland so it’s hardly surprising.

I have a PhD but my goodness, I was also so daft as an undergrad.

I was heavily into the Christian Union when I started Uni (but as a scientist, I couldn't take some of the more daft statements on board so drifted away quickly). I remember clearly a first year undergrad telling a load of older students and church members "if you want to know anything about the Bible, I have studied it loads so you only have to ask". Aged 18. In front of people 3x her age.

Twas ever thus.

I do think these students mainly found it hard to think, or leave themselves free to speak in an exploratory way about this taboo subject. They came across as inarticulate and unable to communicate as a result.

The fear of being struck down by God for blasphemy. It's right there.