Interviewing 'woke' students about TW and prisons

[beastlyslumber]

Quite interesting to hear what people think and how incredibly confused they are.

I'm just grateful there was no social media then and I have been allowed to conveniently forget my stupidity.

Yes, Beastly, I agree. I could say the same about myself about other stupid things thought or my behaviour.

It is interesting to see the assured confidence at the start of the interviews slowly become more shaky as they are confronted with real life examples of where their ideology takes them. Slightly more unnerving was the speed at which women were prepared to throw fellow women under the proverbial bus as a risk worth taking in order to be nice to male rapists.

I think you didn't need to make the "woke" insult in order to make your point.

I find that frightening - even young women can't imagine a world where they put women first. I suppose that's why they're non binary, then they can identify out of it and put it all to the back of their conciousness.

I'm fed up to the back teeth of young white people whose experience of "other cultures" extends to what they've seen on tiktok, possibly read about on Reddit or maybe watched an extended video about on YouTube, insetting it in these discussions. Oh, hang on, maybe they "volunteered in Africa" for 10 days...

They also like talking about colonialism. I've not finished this video yet to know if it occurs in it.

They throw "other cultures" in to try and add weight to their half-baked argument. There's little better an example of intellectual colonialism than misappropriating "other cultures" (they never mean Scandinavian cultures..and it's almost always in the plural, basically saying "forrinners") as a means to strengthen an exclusively Western concept. And it IS exclusively western because there is no society with 490 genders, that allows people to slip and slide in and out of being male and female, not being male or female, being animal genders etc. Not one. There are aspects of men being recognised as women in some cultures (some South Pacific islands and India for example). But there are socially defined norms, expectations and responsibilities. It's not a fucking free for all.

I'm fed up of this nonsense. They need to get out in the real world and do something objectively useful.

Their whole education has been directed towards this. Not all gender ideology, but all making them afraid to ask real questions about the narrative on all social justice questions as that is what Nazis and bigots do.

It had started back when I was a student - we had a guest come in to give a talk on Black history month, much of which was bollocks, objective bollocks. I asked politely about it after the guest left, and was basically told to be quiet. That was the early 90s and it's only become worse from there.

Me? I don't think woke is an insult. It's the name the woke wanted to be known by.

I actually think this brainwashing started in early childhood, buy the toy manufacturers marketing blue/trucks/dinosaurs/adventures for boys and pink/fluffy/princess/sparkly for girls. Even now, most toy shops have such stereotypically boy or girl sections. I don't remember that at all when I was young, or at least not to the same degree, we played with everything. It has given a whole generation the impression that if they don't fit into that exact stereotype, then there must be something wrong with them, which in turn has lead to this level of confusion about the more complex matters. Even today I saw that Asda are selling Minecraft pjs for girls, but the logo and pictures are all pink, instead of green. What is wrong with green? I'd have been screwed if I were a child today, my favourite colour was blue and I loved playing with cars!

Rubbish. And "the woke" don't exist as a group.

The non binary ones seem to just be defining what it is to be an individual.

'Trying not to think in case logic gave them the wrong answer'

Pretty much sums up the whole movement

I've been thinking about this thread today. Way back in the mists of time I remember getting interviewed by a feminist writer, as I was the only female amongst over 50 men on my degree.

I wish I could see her notes from that interview, I bet I talked compete bollocks!

The ignorance of female anatomy by the interviewer and what men actually receive if they do have “bottom surgery” is white profound. He describes men getting “a cervix or vagina or something”. Of course they don’t get either, they get wound that is constantly trying to heal and our course are missing over parts of women’s sexual reproductive system such as a 3-5 inch clitoris, most of which is buried in the pelvis with about 10% visible. All the vagueness and euphemisms help to encourage young people (even young women) to not consider “is it possible to create a sophisticated body part which has evolved over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years? Are we building arms, hands and legs that are actually the same as any other person’s arms, hands and legs from other bits of their flesh?”

This video highlights the ignorance and blind belief of many students, minimising the sexual assault and rape of biological women . I hope that non of these young people (except for the last girl) are training to be social workers, the lack of safeguarding understanding is alarming. .

on a separate note, who are Turning Point U.K.? What else do they stand for? TPUK produced this video.

I think this was a selected group of slightly confused students (mostly) and from the end of the video, the interviewer lost his impartiality with "flags unite men" and seemingly being against the teaching of critical race theory, so I have him pegged as a right winger who isn't week informed enough about female anatomy and the surgical options for transmen (because yes the can have a penis-like structure created and have hysterectomies and mastectomies etc.)

So I think in showing unedited interviews, he did a decent job of letting the students confuse us all (and mostly themselves) but I question his bias. And he needs to hone up on his terminology, because terms like "trans male" are ambiguous at best, for example. it would be good to see the confused students speak with their fully woke peers. That I would like to see.

True, the interviewer also has a very shaky grasp on the issue although I sensed he was trying to play the part of the friendly but uninformed person seeking to be 'educated' because they love a chance to 'educate'.

What's rubbish?

The woke described themselves and named themselves as 'woke'. That's well documented. And they may not be an official group, but that doesn't mean they're not a movement or a phenomenon.

I feel like you need to better articulate your objections if you want to convince anyone of anything. Did you watch the video?

I actually think he has a good grasp on the issues but he is trying to get students to give their point of view freely.

I'm not sure, think they are a political party or lobby group. Centre right, as far as I can tell.

Peer group pressure is very powerful. I think people often know in their heart of hearts that they're talking nonsense but they feel they need to say the "right" thing.

I remember being very active in a university seminar about feminism and postmodern geopolitics and arguing vehemently that it would be ridiculous to just focus on women. 🤦🏻‍♀️

i was both over educated on postmodern theory and woefully naive about what life is like beyond my narrow experience or how patriarchy operates globally.

Genuinely, I look back at myself in my teens and early 20s and despair. As I should. That’s how things should be. I’m sure fresh waves of that will feature at various ages.

In my old job, my boss told me that she thought that people with recruiting people with freshly awarded masters degrees was a kind of sweet (sour?) spot for a really difficult transition to the workplace. It’s the point where many people feel they know it all because they’re so well educated, but they haven’t actually the education or experience enough to have come through that and realised quite how little they know or how difficult it actually is to really know anything.

I think youth are largely sheltered from the grim realities of life. There’s a naivety there and horrors are hidden from many ordinary people in daily life. It causes people to see things only from their own privileged position of free choice. Nobody thinks about how a woman prisoner has ended up incarcerated. Nobody thinks about where a homeless woman will wash .

More doses of reality are required for us all

I think there’s an element of self protection in the way that many women distance themselves from the category of ‘women who’ve experienced male violence and abuse’. They don’t see themselves as the same as those women, and (totally subconsciously) they need to see themselves as different in kind to the women who would experience this stuff.

Because recognising that they’re merely women who have not yet experienced male violence and abuse (or who haven’t recognised the ways in which they have) is terrifying. Realising that you are equally vulnerable to rape - even if you are ‘nice’, middle class and in a relationship - is awful.

Often you simply don’t realise that you are one of those women who need single sex spaces until you have an experience that shows you that you very much are. In a deeply patriarchal society, it’s easier to view the women fighting for such spaces as the problem than to acknowledge that you also have many reasons to fear male violence.

It’s a failure of empathy to not recognise why women might have a problem with male people in a rape support group, but I think for many women, it’s rooted in self protection.

It's clear that they know what they are supposed to say, what view is the 'correct' view to have if you don't want to get threats or attacks but when it comes to actually discussing it they struggle because it's really all bollocks.

I thought the interviewer was pretty good insofar being non confrontational or judgemental and very much playing the 'I'm just a curious journo card' discussing a clearly emotive topic. In similar vein to Louis Theroux, he just let the subjects tie themselves up in knots with the odd nudge.