Never Fully Dressed

[Jellycatspyjamas]

So an advert for Never Fully Dressed popped up on Facebook, featuring their Tara Flower Dress modelled by a man, his face is obscured but the picture is clearly male. Is there nowhere women can just buy stuff without being faced with male appropriation. Guess it’s another place to cross off my shopping list.

ITara Flower Dress

That’s entirely the point.
You are judging a man’s motive when he puts on makeup and a dress. You do not know him or what his motive is. But you judge it based on your decision about what you think is right and wrong - societal norms.
You are judging a man’s motive when he puts on makeup and costume and appears as a different ethnicity. You do not know him or what his motive is. But you judge it based on your decision about what you think is right and wrong - societal norms.
You are following cultural norms and you are arbitrarily making decisions about where lines should be drawn in our culture based on the cultural norms prevalent at the time of your upbringing.
The fact that one uses makeup to change their skin tone, and the other uses makeup to bestow upon them the appearance of youth and fertility is irrelevant. Both are emulating characteristics ONLY available naturally to members of a protected group.
Our experience of societal norms tells us one is not okay, and the other is just fine, nothing to see here, move along.

But societal norms change over time, and if you are unwilling to question or challenge what society tells you you must accept, then you cannot complain when a woman exposes her penis to you and watches you undress.

What the actual fuck are you on about? You're the one saying men can't wear dresses - cultural norms.
I couldn't give a fuck if they do. Societal norms need to change so that men can wear dresses and make up.
Dresses and make up are not a characteristic.

I made it perfectly clear that doesn't mean they can come into women's only spaces.

If society was more relaxed about men wearing dresses and makeup there might well be less men claiming to be women.

Once again, are female children born wearing makeup?

Also, unless men who wear make up and dresses claim they are women they are not "presenting as women" they are just men in dresses and make up.

Well it’s entirely possible, but that is a genie you cannot put back in the bottle. If you are wrong, we move to a society where we open the door for some male perversions to be normalised and accepted in society, and that is a danger to children.

If its okay to wear a dress and makeup, is it okay to stuff your bra?
If it’s okay to do it in public, is it okay to do it at work?
Are you fine with a man wearing homemade breasts and teaching your children?

Is the line you think should exist in society the line that says they are not women? They can pretend. They can flaunt their bodies in front of our children. They can wear a swimsuit and boobs at the pool. They can sit privately with our children in their job roles.

Is it all fine so long as they do not go into women’s toilets or changing rooms?

This is a pointless discussion. You are just making up stuff no one disagreeing with you has said.

The arguments being made on this thread seem to be the very opposite of ‘gender critical’.

Like i said before putting on black face and pretending to be black IS NOT THE SAME as putting on make up and being a man in make up. Ffs.

I don't wear makeup. I'm still a woman.

A male friend of mine quite often does. He's still a man.

The fact I accept him wearing make up doesn't mean I think black face is OK. Or that i think he should be allowed in women's spaces. He's a man. With a penis and eye liner.

If he claimed that eye liner meant he was a woman and should be allowed in the women's spaces I would disagree with him.

And no I don't think men with fake boobs should be teaching my children. Not sure why I would.

Neither are ethnic minorities.
People wear makeup to emulate adults, not children.
They wear makeup to emulate the appearance of a youthful fertile female in the first instance, when they are not.
They wear makeup to emulate another ethnic adult in the latter, when they are not.
A child is not born looking like a young woman or an old hag any more than they are born looking like young or old black man.
Its a hollow justification for a loose moral boundary that has been created in our society, because previous generations were asked, ‘What harm can it do?’
Well, we know what harm it can do.
And the logic now is, ‘Well if we give them that freedom and, don’t complain, maybe they’ll be happy and leave us alone.’ That is seriously FU thinking to my mind.
Our children and grandchildren get the society we build for them.

You are either being deliberately disingenuous or you are as dumb as a box of rocks.

Neither.
I am just wondering why society is changing around me, and it is informative.
until women decide to make a stand, and stand together in unison, we will continue to be beaten in sports, meet men in our the toilets, have female toilets deleted from public building, have language changed and men introduced to female wards in hospitals, and be told its discriminatory to talk about ‘breast’ feeding our children.
If you cannot see the difference, and think this is all about making men happy and feeling accepted in society or encouraging them to share and explore their femininity, then that explains why we are where we are, and no amount of faux dogma or tub-thumping is going to prevent the changes you are encouraging.
The fact that you do not see a link between allowing and encouraging is an issue as I see it. Justifying on one hand and then saying, ‘but only go this far!’
The problem is women, if we allow men to have what they want, because getting what they want is what men do, and they are bloody good at it.

Men, who consider themselves to be men, wearing dresses has got fuck all to do with any of this.

What an astonishingly ironic username.

You are absolutely right.
It is a cultural change, and a normalisation, that has no bearing on the development of society at all.
No societal gaslighting going on here.

We have been warned and we do not care.
Let us hope our children have the backbone and temerity to walk back our decisions.

The OP was wrong here however I do wonder what point Batsheva are trying to prove with this.?

batsheva.com/en-gb/collections/sale/products/welle-blouse-in-denim?variant=42984761884921

There's no reason why a man can't wear this jacket but why photograph him like this?

Or this?

Desperately trying to flog their shit blouse/jacket to people with more money than sense?? £211 full price! A bargain now at £85.

I think it's quite a pretty jacket once you get past the first frankly terrifying model !

I've been debating getting one of their Laura Ashley dresses (I love this dress) but it's put me off a bit. That's silly I suppose - but it's the "in your face" aspect I don't like. If they'd put trousers, shorts or a skirt on him, I wouldn't have thought anything about it.

batsheva.com/en-gb/collections/batsheva-x-laura-ashley/products/laura-ashley-x-batsheva-waverly-dress-in-blue-manafon?variant=43238764740857

I’m offended at the the thought of that jacket being beachwear.

Also, the sleeves don’t fit. Men’s arms are much longer than Women’s arms.

Oh agreed on both counts.

Here's another item ruined.

batsheva.com/en-gb/collections/sale/products/laura-ashley-x-batsheva-pembroke-skirt-in-quartet?variant=42617164103929

I see what you mean though, the first headless pic does make it look a bit like the dress is being modelled by Iggy Pop.

LITERALLY ruined!

(unless the salt was rinsed out rapidly)