DD said babysitter told her men can become women

[Weallgottachangesometime]

Wonder how to approach this-

Today my daughter told me that her baby sitter (who is 19) told her men can become women. I can’t recall my daughters etc words but she mentioned something about surgery to make a man a woman. My DD is 6 and so obviously just accepted what she was told.

I basically told my DD the following -
some men and women want to change sex, so a male might want to be female. People can choose to change their names, ask other people to call them different name and can change what their wear or how they do their hair. They can also change their bodies by taking medicine or having surgery but a male will always be a male and a female always a female. I then gave her the example of her dad. Her dad could change his name to Sarah, wear a dress and ask everyone to refer to him as she, he could also have his body changed with surgery. However he would always be a male. He would always have male hormones in his body and would never be female, be able to have a baby or have a womb etc.

I explained that everyone has differ opinions about if people can change sex.

This is a baby sitter we use infrequently so not someone seeing the children regularly and she is generally very good. I’m wondering if I should speak to her about the conversation she had and ask her to avoid sharing her views. However I wonder if, on the other hand, it’s useful for the kids to hear varying opions and that I should help them hear different opions and make up their own minds?

any thoughts?

My children know that cosmetic changes can be made via hormones and surgery. They know that those cosmetic surgeries don’t actually change a man into a woman or vice versa.
If you want your DD to grow up to be able to reject males in her sports, safe spaces and sexual health services it’s important to hold the line on truth.
It’s up to you as to how you handle it with the babysitter but I would be inclined just to tell my children that the babysitter is mistaken, and that changing some aspects of appearance is all that is possible.

This is basically what I told them. Oddly my son overheard and asked about men who want to be women using women’s toilets and so that gave me a gap to talk about women’s spaces.

I think I might just email and ask what prompted the conversation. Seems like an unusual conversation to have with a child you are babysitting. She is also training to become a nanny and I wonder if she needs to be aware that parents she nanny for might not align with her views or might want her to manage that conversation differently.

Shes a lovely and very kind girl but I think she’ll need to consider how she manages this kind of conversation if she nanny for a family and gets to know the children well as one of their main carers.

Perhaps you could just say that not all topics are suitable for a 6 year old and that any questions about sex, sexual orientation and gender identity are best answered with a ‘that’s a topic to discuss with your mum and dad’?
Teachers are allowed to discuss PSHE topics with children because of their professionally qualified status, a baby sitter doesn’t have that level of training.

(Obvs teachers can be pretty iffy too, but there is at least a framework of line manager, headteacher, governers, Ofsted etc)

I think you need to tell your baby sitter that it isn't appropriate for her to be discussing issues like this with your child. She isn't a parent or teacher and she is crossing a few boundaries.

I would be more worried about why it's was being discussed (can't see any reason to discuss it with a 6 year old 13 year old totally could) as to me that's the red flag not that you don't agree

I agree with asking her but not by email. Speak to her directly and ask how this conversation came about - did DD ask a question? Then tell her that it was a very inappropriate conversation to have with a six year old (Surgery? FFS!) She should just have told DD to ask you.

If you don't get a satsifactory anwser and an apology then tell her that you wont be using her services in future.

This is a good point. My daughter has mentioned a few times about a boy in her class and a girl who both said they wanted to be the opposite sex, but both now don’t. I wonder if she mentioned this.

I will ask her how it came up I think. You’re absolutely right.

As pp have said, why was she talking to your child about this? I would want to know how that conversation started.

Time to swap baby sitter . That sort of conversation comes from parents : school .

I would say something along the lines of:
She's probably a bit confused.
Some people think that what makes you a boy or a girl is your name, hair or clothes, but we know that isn't true.
Did you know that people used to think girls couldn't wear trousers? Some people still are a bit upset by that! Very silly. Whether you're a boy or girl is determined when the baby starts growing in their mummy's tummy, nothing can change that. Boys and girls can wear anything, play with any toys and it doesn't actually change anything about them.

Maybe start a little project together about mammals, which will gently and indirectly reinforce.
'My body is me' is a nice book too.

But I would like to know how an earth this came up in conversation. I would be very concerned. Some people get a kick of messing with little children's heads.

This isn't on - not just because of the gender aspect but I think, as a pp has said above, any topic that has the potential to be sensitive should be avoided by a babysitter. With a 6 year old, this covers a lot of topics. If a kid had asked me (eg) how babies are made when I was a teenage babysitter, I'd have avoided answering and said ask your mum!

My initial thought was that you have handled it very well with your daughter and that was probably enough.

But if the babysitter is training to be a nanny then yes, a chat about sometimes it is better to ward off topics with younger children rather than go deeply into stuff that may be age inappropriate (at best)...

I could see a scenario where a child might ask amother trusted adult a question like this... if she has two classmates at school talking about changing sex / gender and Mummy says you can't change sex, she might be inclined to ask other people to canvas their opinions.

Think about different scenarios... my 4 year old asked my sister if Santa was real because he didn't trust me not to fob him off. He was right, she told him the truth and then told me.

Other scenarios: religion, children growing up in households where parents hold controversial views are held eg racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc.

Your views are that humans cannot change sex. The babysitter's views are that a man can become a woman, in the eyes of society and the law, creating a legal fiction and one which society is requested to go along with.

The subtleties of this is something that we will all have to grapple with as it is not going away and we will have to talk to our children about.

When we talk to children about religion, we say, some people believe and while we respect their beliefs, we do not hold the same beliefs. When we talk to children about adoption (another legal fiction) we tell them that their adoptive parents are their parents even though they didn't give birth / provide the sperm.

We have to find a way that allows us to state the facts so that our children understand why we hold different views to other people.. and we risk them seeing us as transphobic because of it.

It's not really a trans issue is it? That's the topic at the moment but the topic could be anything from religion, sex, veganism, Santa, and the tooth fairy where people have different beliefs.

And a nanny should refer all and any of those to you, not impose her own beliefs on your little one. I can be a bit dim but even I knew from 13 onwards if little ones ask those kind of questions, you refer them to mum.

My (so called non-binary) niece told my son that she's a boy.

My husband had to have a word with his brother about it.
Some of the family play along with her nonsense to keep things somewhat sweet. But you don't pull that shit on my son.

I mean you’re right that if she had asserted her opinion as fact about anything else like religion then I would have had the same issue too.

However I am interested in hearing how people would deal with this specific topic because in its particularly controversial at the moment, and also the existence of sex and the fact it can’t change isn’t really a ‘belief’ in the same way something like religion is. So I was just interested how people respect differences of opinion while also conveying the reality of sex.

I means it’s a tough one isn’t it. I’d like my children to be accepting of people dressing however they want, calling themselves whatever name they want etc. whilst at the same time knowing that someone cannot change sex and that someone’s sex will remain the same forever.

It is very difficult when faced with a close relative or friend who insists that you and your children become part of their fiction and play along with the narrative that gender trumps sex and that pronouns refer to gender and not sex.

When we talk to children about adoption (another legal fiction) we tell them that their adoptive parents are their parents even though they didn't give birth / provide the sperm.

What the hell? Comparing adoption to trans issues? In what way are adoptive parents not parents?

OP, I’d be concerned about a babysitter having sensitive conversations with my kids and 6 is too young to understand the complexities around the issue. I think you’ve done well in explaining to your child, and would explore with the babysitter how it came up for discussion with a clear expectation that she redirects your kids to you.

I don't think the 'everyone has different opinions' approach is appropriate with your own children.

'Some people think the earth is flat, but of course they're wrong' would seem better, no? (Because it's true.)

So ... 'Some people seem to think people can change sex, but really (though we shouldn't be unkind to them, or shout at them or anything like that), those people are really just a bit silly; of course you can't change sex. If you're a girl, you'll grow up to be a woman like mummy; your brother will be a man like daddy when he grows up. What a silly-billy your babysitter is, isn't she? Fancy thinking people can change sex!'

[My own children grown up before this nonsense started, I have had similar conversations with grandchildren.]

@ChateauMargaux

When we talk to children about religion, we say, some people believe and while we respect their beliefs, we do not hold the same beliefs. When we talk to children about adoption (another legal fiction) we tell them that their adoptive parents are their parents even though they didn't give birth / provide the sperm.

How is adoption a 'legal fiction'?

I think you handled it well. I imagine this conversation will crop up on most households at some point, probably sooner than parents anticipate, because it’s being so widely discussed and becoming more common an occurrence. However, the babysitter should have directed your child to you for that conversation.

@monsteramunch not wanting to derail the conversation as it is potentially another controversial and emotive topic, I have sent you a link by PM. Maybe in hindsight it was not the best example to use.

I think you handled it well, but I wouldn't hire a babysitter again if they had crossed a boundary like that.

I know what the phrase 'legal fiction' means, having been heavily involved in the adoption process, so your Wikipedia link isn't needed.

What's the comparison you were making? You either think adoptive parents are parents (just not biological ones) or aren't parents at all. If you fall into the latter camp then your opinion is absolutely bizarre tbh.

FYI I'm adopted and my parents are my parents. HTH.