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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why intelligent people belief stupid things

55 replies

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2023 13:28

This has come up on other threads, but I found this article on the topic particularly interesting:

gurwinder.substack.com/p/why-smart-people-hold-stupid-beliefs

The writer has come up with the concept of Fashionably Irrational Beliefs - FIBs for short (naturally).

This is a great quote, and is a point I sometimes make (though not as well):

"Labyrinthine sophistry like 'sex is a spectrum' prevails among cognitively sophisticated cultural elites, including those who should know better such as biologists, but it’s rarer among the common people, who lack the capacity for mental gymnastics required to accept such elaborate delusions."

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2023 14:41

That is a good quote. Bookmarked the article to read later.

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 16:34

Book marking also.

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 16:34

FIBs is a great acronym !

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 16:35

A spade is a spade.

Wbeezer · 14/02/2023 16:49

I've shared it with my DH, he tends to get involved in discussions about Brexit rather that Genderism but has the same problem of his friends giving to much credence to dodgy opinions of "clever people".

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2023 17:05

Thanks, looks really intersting!

Kucinghitam · 14/02/2023 17:11

Labyrinthine sophistry like 'sex is a spectrum' prevails among cognitively sophisticated cultural elites

That sounds so very familiar!

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 17:11

Queer theory and queer theory academia:

Since we’re a social species, it is intelligent for us to convince ourselves of irrational beliefs if holding those beliefs increases our status and well-being. Dan Kahan calls this behavior “identity-protective cognition” (IPC).

By engaging in IPC, people bind their intelligence to the service of evolutionary impulses, leveraging their logic and learning not to correct delusions but to justify them. Or as the novelist Saul Bellow put itit_, “a great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.”*

See also: the amount of money thrown at trans inclusive charities and the elevation of trans within pride and lgb groups. On social media, in the media etc. the fawning over "being brave." The attention some mothers get showing off their trans kids on SM.

The Grey heterosexual flag compared to all the other pretty colours.

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 17:15

master-debatery circlejerks

That's a rather glorious term.

You master-debatery circlejerk you.

Forfrigz · 14/02/2023 17:18

Thanks for the link. Not sure if its mentioned but its definitely laziness. Intelligent people can tend to be lazy because they don't have to work hard ro understand things, but at the same time it sometimes hinders them from fully scrutinising what's considered 'right'.

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 17:22

Basically, queer theory is all master-debatery circlejerking.

Circular definitions. Arguing for argument's sake. No interest in the truth, or using self constructed biased evidence bases.

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2023 17:24

Kucinghitam · 14/02/2023 17:11

Labyrinthine sophistry like 'sex is a spectrum' prevails among cognitively sophisticated cultural elites

That sounds so very familiar!

Yes. When educated people say "sex is a spectrum" they imagine that they're being very very clever and sophisticated. But it's just another way of being stupid.

OP posts:
WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 17:33

Love the anti dote:

Humility and curiosity, then, are what we most need to find truth. By seeking one we also seek the other: being curious makes us humble, because it shows us how little we know, and in turn, being humble makes us curious, because it helps us acknowledge that we need to learn more.

Triffid1 · 14/02/2023 17:45

Well, while I agree re trans I wasn't super impressed with this article. His definition of woke is annoying (and I hate woke as much as the next person), and his supposed debunking of under representation of minorities is bollocks.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 14/02/2023 17:47

Not All Biologists.

😄

DemiColon · 14/02/2023 17:57

A lot of people have no idea what their first principles are. So they can argue backwards to support whatever idea they think seems right, without being really aware that they might be violating their own basic beliefs. People are used to believing any number of mutually exclusive things at once.

GrumpyPanda · 14/02/2023 17:58

Triffid1 · 14/02/2023 17:45

Well, while I agree re trans I wasn't super impressed with this article. His definition of woke is annoying (and I hate woke as much as the next person), and his supposed debunking of under representation of minorities is bollocks.

The same here. It was also unbelievably ethnocentric - American women may be underrepresented in STEM, but things look completely different once you look at Asia.

nepeta · 14/02/2023 18:30

I'm not agreeing with everything this author says, but some of his arguments are similar to the ones I have expressed in the past myself, after studying how some opinion writer arrives at a particular conclusion (by going backwards, finding only those studies which support his/her views, and then expressing those views as clearly backed by science, while ignoring all the studies which show something different).

But then his examples of women in STEM vs. psychology and so on really would require much more fleshing in, because the reasons women and men pick certain fields and not others is based on a myriad of factors, not just some innate preference, or socially acquired preference).

I think in general the fact that many of the arguments in this context, by those who are not in a particular field, are on a simplistic level (I, at least, found the deeper level thinking very hard, both intellectually and emotionally, and it took me a decade), with strong social rewards from agreeing to one final conclusion without that work. Those who work in a particular relevant field suffer from a slightly different complication, and that is the isolation of various sub-fields of inquiry from each other.

So if all in your camp think the same way, the peers reviewing your articles will not bring up problems which scholars in an adjacent field immediately would.

Where I do agree with the writer is that intelligent people are better at defending their own biases, and that being curious and humble are very helpful characteristics for all researchers to cultivate.

That, plus being taught proper methods would take us much further. But we seem to be veering away from that rather than towards it.

Still, the fact that people are rewarded, by their peer groups, for irrational thinking is a huge part of the problem, and so is the way online social media can mete punishment for wrong-think.

Delphinium20 · 14/02/2023 18:43

Some of his arguments make sense but dig a bit deeper and he likes to blame feminists for things. He seems interested in debunking that rape is about power but not terribly interested in trying to find solutions to stop it. Some of his reasoning is helpful, some is lacking.

Meh.

MsMarch · 14/02/2023 19:09

Delphinium20 · 14/02/2023 18:43

Some of his arguments make sense but dig a bit deeper and he likes to blame feminists for things. He seems interested in debunking that rape is about power but not terribly interested in trying to find solutions to stop it. Some of his reasoning is helpful, some is lacking.

Meh.

Yes, I think he's coming at this from a very biased, anti woke, anti feminist, anti-anyone who doesn't agree that white men are hard done by approach which.

Also, in OP's original quote the reference to "common people" made my skin crawl.

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2023 19:39

DemiColon · 14/02/2023 17:57

A lot of people have no idea what their first principles are. So they can argue backwards to support whatever idea they think seems right, without being really aware that they might be violating their own basic beliefs. People are used to believing any number of mutually exclusive things at once.

Yes! There was a fascinating test of this a few years back - you answered a series of questions and the test then revealed where you were making basic contradictions.

It was challenging! Wish I could remember what it was or where I saw it, now ...

Toohardtofindaproperusername · 14/02/2023 19:55

Triffid1 · 14/02/2023 17:45

Well, while I agree re trans I wasn't super impressed with this article. His definition of woke is annoying (and I hate woke as much as the next person), and his supposed debunking of under representation of minorities is bollocks.

agree. i stopped reading at this:
if a wokeist wishes to use the overrepresentation of white men in STEM as evidence that women and minorities are being discriminated against, then the wokeist must either ignore or explain away the fact that Asian men are also overrepresented in STEM, or that women dominate the field of psychology, or that the biggest racial disparity of all is black men comprising less than 7% of the US population but holding over 70% of dream jobs playing in the NBA.

trying to impress just like the people he is criticising... and not very clever

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2023 20:36

I found that while looking for the test, which I can't find!

This seems pertinent:

www.fastcompany.com/3067169/how-your-brain-makes-you-hold-contradictory-beliefs

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2023 20:38

More on contradictions:

aeon.co/ideas/how-our-contradictions-make-us-human-and-inspire-creativity