The Hannah Barnes book

[RoyalCorgi]

There have been discussions about the book on different threads relating to various interviews with Barnes or pieces about the book. Thought it would be useful to bring everything on to one thread.

This review by Sarah Ditum is excellent and very moving:

unherd.com/2023/02/the-tragedy-of-becoming-a-woman/

Another good one from Suzanne Moore:

suzannemoore.substack.com/p/a-review-of-time-to-think-the-book

Well, Waterstones is a private company. They can choose not to stock any book if they wish, whether it's a bestseller or not.

And of course, people can choose to support other bookshops, instead.

People always talk about 'boycotts', but I think what actually probably affects a company more in the long run is just falling behind in terms of public opinion. As soon as a company starts to look like its judging its customers, it makes one far less inclined to spend money there.

Slightly out of the box theory here:

Could Waterstones be thinking that if they make it look like they are holding back on stocking the books- people will order from them precisely to show that there is the demand for them (as people are)- to prove a point- and that will actually increase sales for them. More people will buy from them to prove a point than will go to other sellers in protest. Maybe they've even done analytics in this.

Not sure I'm explaining this well- and probably too convoluted- but I'm sure lots of companies will be using the gender debate as a marketing opportunity. If you look at all the heightened visibility and consciousness (even when negative/via outrage) given to brands who use Dylan Mulvaney etc. Just wondering if there is something in it for them. Businesses are businesses first and foremost and I've been very cynical about the angles marketing will take since first learning about it in primary school. I'm thinking successful marketing can use trends in surprising and counterintuitive ways.

Any marketing psychologists/analysts here?

Could be totally off but just occured to me so thought it worth putting out there.

Realise I could be giving them too much credit for cleverness though

The problem with just ordering online is that no one will then encounter these books unless they are specifically searching them out. No one will pick up a copy of Material Girls or Hags or Time to Think or Irreversible Damage or Trans or similar books, because they won't even know they're being written. Instead you see entire tables devoted to trans issues, but all from one perspective. If you aren't already paying attention to this issue you therefore may never even realise there are books to be bought.

And from the bookstores' perspective, if everyone is just ordering online, then they can justifiably say that there is no demand so they won't order any copies in.

I don't believe their claim that the books just sold out quickly as well. I went into the Victoria branch on the day of publication, and every few days after that, and they neither had copies nor would allow me to order into the shop - they just directed me to the Kings Road branch as Picadilly, Hatchards, and Foyles (owned by Waterstones) all had no copies.

I was thinking of popping to the local independent bookshop to see if they had a copy. Anyway, it occurred to me, does anyone know if Hannah Barnes is planning any author signing tours?

Just wondering if WH Smith are having the same “stock issues”
Cant see Hannah Barnes book here either

twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1635910821472600074?s=46&t=L-moZWFCgm4ZDc07DxTMGg

And although I can now click and collect from my local Waterstones it’s not on display. It’s kept in the back. It’s just bonkers.

I've just into Bookhaus, an otherwise good bookshop in Bristol. No, not in stock, except for one copy ordered specifically. It's not just Waterstones.

I've already got a copy but I decided to test out my local branch of Waterstones, today. I've always had issues with the 'predicatble' new releases not being available on shelves, or in the new releases section, and today was no different.

I enquired about the book with a member of staff, who feigned ignorance of the book ( perhaps genuinely, not sure) and did a search. She said they had one copy in store. I asked where and wondered why it was not on the 'New Releases' shelf - she said it is upstairs in the 'Smart Thinking' section. I took a look. It was not there. It also was not in the Gender studies section, either.

They did have a copy of Munroe Bergadorf's book in the new releases section, though.

They did have a copy of Munroe Bergadorf's book in the new releases section, though.

That could be around for a while gathering dust judging by the sales figures...

A better approach for those who don't like Barnes' arguments is to refute them with logic and evidence. That is how societies should address contested issues, by reasoned debates.

And yes, I know saying that is pointless as it is not how politics today works, if it ever did.

I went into my local Waterstones today and was very pleasantly surprised to find two copies actually on the shelf (and a copy of 'Hags' prominently displayed in the window of the independent bookshop down the road).

Read the chapter about Jacob today. I don't know whether to rant with rage or cry with despair for that child. Unbelievably shoddy, failed treatment and zero follow up.

Jacob and mum Michelle sound like lovely people. I wish them well.

Which branch was that?

Berkhamsted - Herts.

It would be interesting to know which branches do and do not reliably stock the books we want to buy.

Mine is the Liverpool branch. So fairly woke central when it comes to all things trans/university city and so on.

Mind you I tend to order my books from 'News From Nowhere' the city's radical women's co-operative bookshop, whenever possible

I ordered mine directly through my local bookshop - I wonder if they will be brave enough to stock it on the shelf (might go in to have a look today). I'm about 2/3rds of the way through and what an excellent piece of investigative journalism it is. Thoughtful, considered, objective. What strikes me the most is that, fundamentally, it is not about transgender issues but about the failures of leadership and safeguarding, scapegoating of those that raised concerns, inadequate patient assessment, therapeutic treatment, data collection and follow-up in a service providing an experimental treatment to a vulnerable, complex patient group. The additional layers here are the pressures from groups such as Mermaids and GIRES, and the use of accusations of transphobia to shut down any debate or serious discussion.
I take my hat off to those who raised their concerns in the face of such hostility, knowing it would likely impact on their careers and own mental wellbeing.
Based on what I have read so far, there is so much here that any clinical service could learn from and I think everyone who provides or manages a clinical service should read this book.

I'm currently listening on Audible - absolutely fascinating book.

Really interesting to hear how Susie Green attempted to/did work to change practice and how those in the NHS recognised they were being pressured and lobbied but still couldn't 'hold the line'

And yes @peanutbutter789 there is so much that anyone working in health care can reflect on and learn from this.

I've heard the author interviewed where she says "this is not a trans story but a health care story' and I think that's a very important point.

My books arrived today! Hags and Time to think. Weirdly enough Foyles had issue so was sent by Waterstones. Who were the ones in Bristol originally refusing to order it for me 🤷‍♀️

It is a healthcare story and having been a nurse for 35 years it’s incomprehensible to me how they were allowed to get away with such an unevidenced treatment when every department I ever worked in had audits and data analyses and research as part of our bloody job description! The iconic, stand-alone, national GIDS did barely any research at all! There was no curiosity, no data-collecting culture.

I suspect part of the problem is the NHS climate makes clinicians - CAMHS, GPs, etc. - assume that because their complex patient is now on the caseload of the world-renowned Tavistock, they will have all their issues addressed there, and don’t need their local or other services any more. We know now of course that GIDS didn’t address anything other than their trans identities, and apparently sometimes/often in a pretty perfunctory way, it was like a conveyor belt.

I felt the same relief, the same lightening of my load when I e.g. referred a patient to community palliative care, in the knowledge/expectation all their needs would be addressed.

I found it actually displayed on a table in the Trafalgar Square Waterstones yesterday for the first time - there were only 2 copies left so I bought one for a friend. Hags was available but on the shelf downstairs - a shame it wasn't out on a table given how recently it was published and how it's been promoted on the Waterstones and Blackwells websites as a "most anticipated" book this year.

I'm so happy that they're finally making it into stores, just such a shame it's more than a month after all the rave reviews in the papers.

Anyway I finished it this morning - what a read. I agree that it's a healthcare and governance story, but it is also a trans story because there was such a strong sense of mission and purpose driven by the kudos they got and the money they were bringing in that enabled the top brass to turn a blind eye when clinicians were jumping up and down to be heard. It seems like lots of people spoke up over and over again - at one point something like half of the entire clinical team were making complaints in various directions - but because everything was discussed people felt that action would be taken and then somehow it never was.

It had a lot of similarities with other procedural downfall books I've read over the years like about Enron, Theranos, Lehman Brothers etc but this is so much worse because literally thousands of hugely distressed children were involved.

Every page was a jaw dropper but the two that really stood out for me were a) that little to no actual talking therapy was going on - only in the context of assessment for the single "treatment" was available, puberty blockers, and that led in 99% of the cases to cross sex hormones so it wasn't a "time to think" at all. and b) that the entire evidence base for puberty blockers rests on the Dutch studies which aren't even applicable to what they were doing and have methodological problems of their own (switching the surveys given to children before and after etc). On this shaky foundation, thousands of physically healthy children may have (or may not! Because no data was collected!) become life-long medical patients and many will now be infertile.

@MavisMcMinty "The iconic, stand-alone, national GIDS did barely any research at all! There was no curiosity, no data-collecting culture.

And yet they apparently had a well resourced research team that worked in GIDS full-time.

p. 278 of the book, "There was a research team and that was well staffed and funded," the clinician explains. It looked as though GIDS was collecting as much information as it could. Briefings would be given at regular away days, they say. "It wasn't obvious that no meaningful data was being collected."

I don't work in the NHS, but FGS what was this research team doing? What was in these briefings they were regularly giving? If the clinicians were writing all the data down in the notes and thought it was being collected somewhere, surely it's all still there to be collected and analysed? Or are we talking a massive paper-shredding exercise somewhere?

Is there a specific website for book sales figures? Obvs I can see the ‘number x in this category’ on sales sites, but I don’t know
how useful that is overall (is it just that seller, that week?)

I’d love to know if the authors with the massive advance & deals made via bidding wars ever get anywhere near the point where the publishers recoup those advances.

I’d also love to compare and contrast how books from TRA authors and terfy authors released around the same time sell (despite the asymmetry in production/promotion/availability).

eg Shon Faye and Helen Joyce both put out books around the same time, one with the full backing of the industry and one without.