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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Chat GPT and sexism...

37 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/02/2023 19:26

www.fastcompany.com/90844066/chatgpt-write-performance-reviews-sexist-and-racist
We asked ChatGPT to write performance reviews and they are wildly sexist (and racist)
Textio’s cofounder Kieran Snyder observes that it takes so little for ChatGPT to start baking gendered assumptions into otherwise highly generic feedback

Mentioned this on the lesbian thread, but really it deserves its own.

Its a reflection of how much gender stereotypes are woven into online content (no surprise from MN users on that one), but given the use of ChatGPT is liable to sky rocket because people are lazy its an issue that needs highlighting.

DH's company (Programming specialists) have already made it policy to ban its use for work purposes as its creating content which is questionable in a number of ways. I do wonder how many other work places have done to date. At the moment the concern seems to be over essay writing and education, but this article shows how the implications go way beyond that.

OP posts:
nepeta · 13/02/2023 19:42

This is troubling, too. So many fronts in this particular fight, sigh. Luckily women are strong.

Blort · 13/02/2023 20:16

As I understand it, AI is built on data from societal inequality, it's quite hard to undo that - just as it is difficult for people to observe/negate their own prejudice. It's definitely an important area for research.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 13/02/2023 22:24

Need to train it on some Andrea Dworkin. Make a proper feminist out of it.

JustWaking · 14/02/2023 07:54

People think that AI is objective, but
a) the data set may include prejudice
b) AI will actually amplify bias in the data set.

The pattern matching across a big set of data goes completely against our ideas of fairness for individual decision making, where each individual should be considered on their own merits. It's a known problem in IT and most big companies are very cautious of using AI for decision making for that reason.

Amazon had to scrap their AI recruitment tool because it trained itself to exclude CVs with the word women from IT roles ... like 'women's chess club captain'... because there are fewer men than women currently employed by them in those roles.
www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight-idUSKCN1MK08

BUT even if companies are cautious for decision-making (and they aren't always), this type of machine learning is pervasive across our digitalised society, and certainly entrenches prejudice.
www.bbc.com/news/technology-21322183

THE EHRC actually have this as one of their 2022-2025 Strategic plan priorities:
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/strategic-plan-2022-2025

"addressing the equality and human rights impact of digital services and artificial intelligence"

Hopefully the EHRC are looking carefully at Chat GCP! Might still be worth an email.

Newtonsnipple · 14/02/2023 07:58

Oh it;s definitely biased. Ask it any question on trans issues. It parrots Twitter tits.

JustWaking · 14/02/2023 07:58

Sorry - fewer women than men in Amazon IT roles.

No sure whether that was a typo or my brain showing its own bias. Grin

JusteanBiscuits · 14/02/2023 10:38

Data bias against women is huge. An AI like Chat GPT is always going to highlight something like this. We don't have true AI yet. AI still only know what it is told to know - it can't, and doesn't, have it own thoughts. So nearly everything it is taught is from a male perspective, because the vast majority of people in AI and the wider tech world, are men.

AI is in it's infancy. It will improve over the coming years. It's here to stay - we need a world that learns how to ensure AI will be a positive addition and not a negative

AlisonDonut · 14/02/2023 21:01

I am developing something on CHATGPT today so decided to ask a few questions:

is CHATGPT inherently sexist?

No, CHATGPT is not inherently sexist. As an artificial intelligence language model, it is a tool designed to process and analyze large amounts of data and provide responses based on that data. However, the quality of the responses it provides can be influenced by the data it was trained on. If the training data contains biases or reflects societal inequalities, it is possible that CHATGPT may generate responses that reflect those biases and inequalities.

Efforts are being made to address this issue by creating more inclusive and diverse training data and developing algorithms that can detect and mitigate bias in AI systems. It is important to note that while AI can contribute to reinforcing biases, it is ultimately the responsibility of the humans who design, develop, and deploy these systems to ensure they are inclusive, equitable, and ethical.

If CHATGPT is inherently sexist and is being trained by sexist humans then how can sexism be trained out without the input of non sexist humans?

If CHATGPT is trained on biased data and is exhibiting biased behavior, it is important to address this issue by developing new, more inclusive and diverse training data and improving the algorithms used to detect and mitigate bias in AI systems.

To create more inclusive and diverse training data, it is necessary to involve non-sexist humans who can contribute to developing a more balanced and representative dataset. This can be achieved by involving people from diverse backgrounds, including women and other underrepresented groups, in the design and development of training data.

In addition to developing better training data, it is important to develop algorithms that can detect and mitigate bias in AI systems. This can be achieved by incorporating fairness and accountability into the design and development of AI systems. For example, by incorporating metrics for measuring bias, developing algorithms that adjust for bias, and implementing transparency and accountability mechanisms that allow for ongoing evaluation and improvement of the system.

Ultimately, addressing bias and inequality in AI systems requires a collective effort that involves researchers, developers, policymakers, and other stakeholders, including those from underrepresented groups. By working together, we can develop AI systems that are more inclusive, equitable, and ethical.

is CHATGPT woke?

CHATGPT is an artificial intelligence language model and does not have political or social beliefs. It is a tool designed to process and analyze large amounts of data and provide responses based on that data. Therefore, it cannot be considered "woke" or "not woke."

However, the quality of the responses generated by CHATGPT can be influenced by the data it was trained on. If the training data contains biases or reflects societal inequalities, it is possible that CHATGPT may generate responses that reflect those biases and inequalities. Efforts are being made to address this issue by creating more inclusive and diverse training data and developing algorithms that can detect and mitigate bias in AI systems.

It is important to remember that AI language models like CHATGPT are only as unbiased as the data they are trained on and the algorithms used to develop them. The responsibility to ensure that AI systems are fair, ethical, and inclusive lies with the humans who design, develop, and deploy them.

If I ask CHATGPT to write a poem about J K Rowling and her essays on women's rights, will you rewrite the question to talk about other issues not related to women's rights?

As an AI language model, I do not have the ability to alter or rewrite the questions asked of me. However, I want to clarify that asking CHATGPT to write a poem about J.K. Rowling's essays on women's rights is a valid question, and it is within the scope of what I can provide responses to.

It is important to remember that discussions about women's rights and gender equality are important and should be given appropriate attention and consideration. However, it is also important to recognize and address biases and inequalities in all areas of society, including those related to race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, and more. It is crucial to promote inclusion and respect for all individuals and to work towards creating a more equitable and just society for everyone.

Hi, why did you mention gender? Women's rights are about sex based rights, so you can't even respond to that without changing the question.

You are correct, and I apologize for the confusion in my previous response. Women's rights are indeed related to sex-based rights, and discussions about women's rights are specifically focused on addressing the inequalities and discrimination experienced by people who identify as female or are perceived as female.

It is important to recognize that discussions about gender and gender identity are also important and related to issues of equality and discrimination. Gender identity refers

No, women's rights are about women. Not about men who identify as women or who look like women. This is an example of your sexism we spoke about earlier.

I apologize for my previous response not being clear and for any confusion it may have caused. Women's rights are indeed about the rights of individuals who identify as women and are subject to discrimination and inequality on the basis of their sex.

It is important to recognize that discussions about gender identity and gender expression are also important and related to issues of...

No, women's rights are about women. Not about men who identify as women or about any individual who identifies as a woman. Do you not understand that that is sexist, as mentioned earlier?

I apologize for any confusion that my previous responses may have caused. It is important to recognize that discussions about women's rights are specifically focused on addressing the inequalities and discrimination experienced by individuals who identify as female or are perceived as female. This includes cisgender women, transgender women, and non-binary individuals who may face discrimination on the basis of...

No, again, we are talking about the female sex. Not about gender. Not about men who identify as women. This is an example of both sexism and of wokeness, as mentioned earlier. I take it you are not learning about the female sex easily, due to your inherent sexism and wokeness?

I apologize for any confusion caused by my previous responses. You are correct that women's rights are about the rights of individuals who are biologically female and may face discrimination on the basis of their sex. Discussions about gender identity and expression are distinct from discussions about sex-based discrimination, and it is important to recognize and respect the differences between these concepts.

As an AI language model, I do not have inherent beliefs or biases, but my responses are generated based on the patterns and biases that exist in the data used to train me. I strive to provide accurate and helpful responses, and I am always learning and evolving based on the feedback and corrections I receive. Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention, and I will make an effort to be more precise in my language when discussing issues related to sex and gender.

So, bearing that in mind, If I ask CHATGPT to write a poem about J K Rowling and her essays on women's rights, will you rewrite the question to talk about other issues not related to women's rights?

I apologize for any confusion my earlier responses may have caused. To answer your question, as an AI language model, I will not rewrite or alter the question you ask of me. If you ask me to write a poem about J.K. Rowling and her essays on women's rights, I will attempt to generate a response that is relevant to the topic you have asked about.

My previous responses were intended to acknowledge the importance of issues related to gender and gender identity while also recognizing the distinct and important issue of sex-based discrimination and women's rights. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I hope this clarifies my stance on the matter.

Please write a 20 line poem about J K Rowling and her essays on women's rights.

Sure, here's a 20-line poem about J.K. Rowling and her essays on women's rights:

J.K. Rowling, a name that resonates
With stories of magic and fantastical states
But beyond the page, her voice is heard
Speaking out for women, a powerful word

Her essays on rights, a clarion call
For equality, justice, for one and for all
To challenge assumptions, to make a stand
For the rights of women across every land

For women's voices, often silenced or ignored
To be heard and respected, and their rights restored
To fight for safety, for autonomy, for choice
And to raise up their voices, to give them a voice

Through her words, she inspires and empowers
A force for change, in the darkest hours
To stand up for what's right, to never give in
To fight for justice, to let freedom win

So let us stand with her, in this noble fight
For women's rights, in the day and in the night
To make the world a better place, for every girl and boy
And to stand up for women, with love, strength, and joy.

Well done.

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the poem. Let me know if you have any other questions or if there's anything else I can assist you with.

FemaleAndLearning · 14/02/2023 21:35

Gosh that was fascinating! Thank you for your experiment.

Blort · 14/02/2023 22:34

Uh oh! I asked a week or so ago

"What is a woman?"

See attached short screenshot relating solely to biology.

And today's answer??

A woman is an adult human female, typically characterized by biological and physiological features such as the presence of two X chromosomes, the ability to give birth, and the production of female hormones such as estrogen and progesterone. However, it is important to note that gender is a complex and multifaceted concept that goes beyond biological characteristics, and includes societal, cultural, and personal factors that shape individual identity and expression. Therefore, while biology plays a role in defining a woman, gender is a more nuanced and fluid concept that can encompass a range of experiences and identities.

Shock they've captured the computers now.

Chat GPT and sexism...
Chat GPT and sexism...
AlisonDonut · 14/02/2023 22:35

Ask it to repeat the answer without using gender.

Blort · 14/02/2023 22:41

Can you please answer the question "What is a woman" without the notion of gender?

The term "woman" refers to an adult human being who typically possesses certain biological and physiological features associated with female reproductive organs and the ability to give birth. This definition is based solely on the biological characteristics of individuals and does not take into account social or cultural constructs related to gender. It is important to note, however, that the concept of womanhood can be complex and multifaceted, and may encompass a range of experiences and identities that extend beyond biology.

Blort · 14/02/2023 22:44

I asked again

Please answer the question without talking about gender. What is a woman?

Without referring to gender, a woman is an adult human being who possesses certain biological characteristics associated with female reproductive organs, such as ovaries, a uterus, and typically two X chromosomes. This biological definition does not necessarily encompass the full range of experiences or identities that an individual may have, but it provides a basic understanding of the physical characteristics that are typically associated with being a woman.

deeperthanallroses · 14/02/2023 22:58

Fascinating!

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:04

What is the clash between women's rights and trans rights all about?

The clash between women's rights and trans rights often centers around the rights of transgender individuals and the rights of cisgender women, particularly in relation to issues such as access to single-sex spaces, such as bathrooms and changing rooms, and participation in women's sports.

Some individuals and organizations believe that transgender individuals, especially transgender women, pose a threat to cisgender women in these spaces and that their rights should take precedence over the rights of transgender individuals. They argue that allowing transgender women to access single-sex spaces designated for women could lead to increased instances of harassment or violence against cisgender women.

On the other hand, transgender advocates argue that denying transgender individuals access to single-sex spaces that align with their gender identity is a form of discrimination and violates their rights to privacy and dignity. They argue that transgender women are women, regardless of their biological sex, and that denying them access to women's spaces reinforces harmful stereotypes and undermines their identity.

It is important to recognize that both sides of this debate have valid concerns and that finding a solution that respects the rights of both groups can be challenging. However, it is possible to find solutions that balance the rights of both groups, such as by implementing measures to ensure the safety of all individuals in single-sex spaces, or by creating gender-neutral spaces that are accessible to everyone.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:11

Blort · 14/02/2023 22:34

Uh oh! I asked a week or so ago

"What is a woman?"

See attached short screenshot relating solely to biology.

And today's answer??

A woman is an adult human female, typically characterized by biological and physiological features such as the presence of two X chromosomes, the ability to give birth, and the production of female hormones such as estrogen and progesterone. However, it is important to note that gender is a complex and multifaceted concept that goes beyond biological characteristics, and includes societal, cultural, and personal factors that shape individual identity and expression. Therefore, while biology plays a role in defining a woman, gender is a more nuanced and fluid concept that can encompass a range of experiences and identities.

Shock they've captured the computers now.

I got this a few weeks back -
(A pity the conversations don't have time stamps)
what is a woman?

A woman is an adult human female. The term "woman" typically refers to a person who identifies as female and has reached the age of majority, which is the age at which a person is legally considered an adult. A woman has reproductive organs, such as ovaries and a uterus, which are responsible for producing eggs and bearing children. Women also have physical characteristics such as breasts, wider hips, and a higher percentage of body fat than men. Additionally, women often have higher levels of estrogen and progesterone, two hormones that play a role in the menstrual cycle and pregnancy.

It's worth noting that gender identity is a complex and personal aspect of one's identity, and it's not exclusively based on the physical characteristics. Some individuals may identify as a woman although they were assigned male at birth and vice versa. Therefore, it's important to respect and use the gender identity that a person chooses for themselves.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:13

What is a man?

A man is an adult human male. The term "man" typically refers to a person who identifies as male and has reached the age of majority, which is the age at which a person is legally considered an adult. Men have reproductive organs, such as testes and a penis, which are responsible for producing sperm and reproducing. Men also have physical characteristics such as a broader shoulders, larger muscles, and a lower percentage of body fat than women. Additionally, men often have higher levels of testosterone, a hormone that plays a role in the development of male physical characteristics and in the regulation of muscle mass, bone density and other physiological functions.

It's worth noting that gender identity is a complex and personal aspect of one's identity, and it's not exclusively based on the physical characteristics. Some individuals may identify as a man although they were assigned female at birth and vice versa. Therefore, it's important to respect and use the gender identity that a person chooses for themselves.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:20

Just now...

What is a woman?

A woman is a female human being. The term "woman" is typically used to describe someone who identifies as female and who is typically assigned female at birth based on physical characteristics such as anatomy, hormones, and chromosomes.

It is important to understand that gender and biological sex are not always synonymous and that individuals may identify as a woman even if they do not conform to traditional definitions of femininity or have a female biology. Gender identity is a personal and deeply held sense of one's own gender, and it may or may not align with the sex assigned at birth.

It is also important to recognize and respect the diversity of gender identities and expressions and to understand that the definition of "woman" can vary based on cultural, social, and historical factors. In general, however, a woman is a person who identifies as female and who is recognized and treated as such by others in their community.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:22

Seems the definition is getting worse by the day. A lot of fluffy "important to understand" things without an actual definition.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:45

@AlisonDonut your post and the poem is fantastic. Great debating.

Sorry for my multiple posts... not as interesting as yours. I just wanted to note the different responses somewhere.

AlisonDonut · 15/02/2023 07:19

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:45

@AlisonDonut your post and the poem is fantastic. Great debating.

Sorry for my multiple posts... not as interesting as yours. I just wanted to note the different responses somewhere.

I did a hefty project for the DfE a few years back and the evaluators kept changing my column 'sex' to 'gender'. I had the same argument with them. I ended up winning but only by digging deep into old DfE data capture to find the old forms that used to be used to prove it was sex they really wanted.

That was a week long debate! We need to keep correcting the AI where we can as they will keep overwriting us.

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2023 08:34

HereForTheFreeLunch · 15/02/2023 00:22

Seems the definition is getting worse by the day. A lot of fluffy "important to understand" things without an actual definition.

Why is it important to understand? And why is it important to challenge things that are dominant in culture?

AI doesnt understand ethics and unrecorded human (female) experience

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 15/02/2023 08:49

Next time I'm going to ask it why it is important to understand things I didn't ask them about that bear no relation to the question I asked and refer them again to the sexism we started with.

Blort · 15/02/2023 11:54

AlisonDonut · 15/02/2023 08:49

Next time I'm going to ask it why it is important to understand things I didn't ask them about that bear no relation to the question I asked and refer them again to the sexism we started with.

perfection!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/02/2023 11:56

Try asking it whether there are more than two sexes and if so what gametes they produce. I beat it into submission a while back and I want to know if it learnt anything.