Drag Queens, are they outright offensive?

[Sophds]

Now I’ve never been the biggest feminist, I know that’s probably not the best way to characterise myself on a feminism board but I don’t want to quickly be dismissed as wrapped up in groupthink.

Read about todays protest at the tate modern against drag queen story hour and I’ve not read enough in to the story hour thing to have a strong informed opinion about that specifically it got me thinking aren’t drag queens just a misogynist version of black face?

I’ve never really thought too much about it and have never really had an issue with drag queens but now I just feel like something doesn’t sit right with me about men dressing up with hugely caricatured female features and caricatured stereotypical female behaviours that often cross over in to overt sexualisation.

I just feel like the entire idea of drag is to caricature and degrade women? Does anybody else feel like this?

They are just taking the piss out of women arent they? That's what bothers me.

oh look, a ‘feminist’ who thinks men are better at being women than women.

I’m still undecided on the whole issue. It’s something I am wrestling with. I was wholeheartedly accepting of drag queens but I’ve read opinions that give me pause. I also read the boards on here that discuss it. But at this time I’m still undecided.

But I do think that wearing heels is nothing to do with being a woman.

Sex and race are both protected characteristics so why is it offensive for someone of a different race to caricature another race but a man caricaturing a woman isn't? Double standards and yes drag is utterly offensive to women

I don’t know, I wouldn’t want to make it socially unacceptable for all performers from dressing up as the opposite sex. I would however like to see acts which portray the opposite sex as grotesque sexual stereotypes fall out of favour.

I find Barry Humphrey’s funny, but I don’t get the sense that I’m being mocked for being female watching him. I would never part with cash to watch a drag
show which pokes fun at women.

Les Dawson's MIL jokes and the Cissy, Ada characters are gentle ribbing, not sexist misogynist bullshit. It's in line with Catherine Tate doing Derek Faye, which I also absolutely love, and wouldn't call 'sexist homophobic bullshit'.

This is worlds apart from what I think of when I think of drag these days which is not playful or gentle, it's overly sexualised and nasty towards women.

So for me it's a matter of degree. If we see Cissy and Ada or Dame Edna or Derek Faye as drag at all, then we have to say that some is acceptable and some isn't.

Would I mind Dame Edna or Derek Faye reading stories to children in a library? Probably not, though I don't think I'd support it enough to actually actively bring my children along to it.

Yes these comedians have identified a stereotype and are exploiting it. That's what comedians do.

Danny La Rue worked as both a drag queen and a Pantomime dame. He said they are completely different.

Pantomime dames are obviously men who can't pass as women - that's the point. They are children's entertainment while drag queens are for adults.

Personally I find drag terribly cheesy and dated. Danny was genuinely funny and could sing a bit. But most of them are talentless bores. Like some red nosed 'comic' boring on about his mother in law and the 'thick paddies'. Begone you dullards!

Like many here I think it is completely misogynistic. I can’t believe it is still acceptable for men to dress up as and take the piss out of women, an oppressed group.

I used to find drag queens not to my taste but generally ignoring them, watching pantomimes and not find them funny but happy for others too. I never saw a lot of drag queens, but I was very much live and let live.

now I truly dislike the whole concept. It started with having my eyes opened to the fact that there were sexualisation and inappropriate jokes near children. Then I saw pictures, not only of rainbow dildo butt monkey but of some other drag Queen, reading stories to children whilst having a clearly visible erection.

I have seen some extremely inappropriate performances on video as well.

I am fed up. These are males. Adult males. They can do whatever they want in company of other adults but I am deeply uncomfortable about adult males seeking out children and doing drag performances. I don’t trust them not to be misogynistic (the whole concept is at best a balancing act), I don’t trust them to keep the jokes clean and it appears I cannot trust them not to get visible erections.

and I am the most fed up with the whole “not all drag queens are like that”. Probably not statistically. But really not my problem - or children’s problem.

I was ok with pantomime dames, I felt that I understood the concept, and after all the principal boy is a woman.

I've got a bit more discerning now. I can accept some, but am quick to see any sexist elements.

With regards to drag and swing back and forth. The original impersonator types, playing it straight, I can accept.

The comedy ones, absolutely not. Full of sexism and innuendo.

No drag queen is suitable for reading with children. It was a gimmick. It should never have caught on. It has nothing to do with inclusion.

Inclusion and diversity with children is getting a variety of people they will encounter to chat with them. People wearing turbans. People with disabilities. People with unusual jobs. Would they get a bunny girl in? Then no thanks to a drag queen.

It’s misogyny that we are being forced to accept by men.

I wil, put up my hand and say I like drag. Done well, it is funny, clever and subversive. Like burlesque, has its roots in music hall and other theatre traditions (like pantomime, which is where characters like Widow Twanky come from) and originally existed to subvert social norms via comedy.

But I say that with two caveats: one being that (like burlesque) there is a lot of lazy, shit and crass drag around nowadays that’s clinging onto the coat tails of much better acts, and secondly that drag is inherently bawdy with a heavy sexual content and therefore has absolutely no place near a child.

Who stands to benefit from these events?

What I mean by that is what does the child get out of the fact that the people reading the stories men in drag that enhances the experience of hearing the story?

I'd say that if the story is told by an engaging storyteller the children gain nothing.

Those who seek to degrade women or to normalise men who wear fetishistic versions of woman to children gain plenty though.

There's just no need for it, at all.

The Tate has got this one wrong. I'm glad there were protests.

The obsession of having kids involved is twisted & utterly unethical!

The kids are not the audience, they are the show.

So much ignorance on these threads...

If you don't like drag shows just don't go to them. It is as simple as that.

Can I point out that the tradition of men portraying women on public stages dates back to the theatre of the Ancient Greeks, and is present in several other theatrical traditions from around the world, including Japanese Kabuki.

Really as a feminist I just can't get worked up about drag.

Of all things and people that are harming women and girls in this world, men in make-up providing light entertainment really doesn't register...

Agree. I've yet to hear a logical explanation of how one is OK and the other isn't.

So much ignorance on these threads...

That isn’t fair. I’m a feminist to my core and I do not think for one moment that comments here about drag being inappropriate for children are unreasonable.

It’s not as simple as that any more though is it?

It used to be. Now you can’t go to a library, museum or art gallery without tripping over one, reading to toddlers. They’re all over the telly as well.

I don’t have a problem with it as adult entertainment. I don’t like it, but I don’t like MMA, crown green bowling or orgies either, so I avoid them.

It’s getting increasingly difficult to do that with drag.

There's a massive difference between light entertainment and adult entertainment. The latter, by definition , does not involve children.

I find them offensive... Maybe we should stop referring to them as drag artists and start calling them 'woman-face actors' and see how that lies.

Can I point out that the tradition of men portraying women on public stages dates back to the theatre of the Ancient Greeks, and is present in several other theatrical traditions from around the world,
Didn’t men perform as women because it wasn’t safe for women to be on stage or travel? I’m sure that’s how it was presented to me at school when we “did” Shakespeare. So not so much a glorious celebration of gender equality, more a clear indication that women were in danger from men and men dressed at women weren’t (presumably because they retained their male advantage despite their clothing).

Odd then that I was in two different museums last week and didn't see any. And I can't recall the last time I watched any drag queens on television.

But then again I don't seek it out...