Possibly just outed myself as GC at work

[crunchermuncher]

I work in a large NHS trust. A menopause policy has been developed by HR and circulated for comment.

I was pleased about this development, until I clapped eyes on it. It talks about cis people, doesn't mention sex and explicitly includes transwomen having side effects from their "HRT" (Yes, I know! they get more space than trans men, who actually experience menopause).

I sent a carefully crafted reply that focuses on the importance of clear language, and refers to other health organisations who have approached the topic differently (ie not centring men). I have focused on potential risks of their approach, not just had a whinge.

I am now steeling myself for fall out!

Its ridiculous that I should feel this way for pointing out that sex matters in healthcare but we all know what's likely to ensue. But having been asked to reply I couldn't in conscience keep silent.

Please send me some encouragement!

Well done OP. I saw some research on “inclusive” languages on twitter this week and how it excludes learning disabled women and women with English as a second language. I’ll see if i can dig it out for you.

Sending solidarity!

💪

You could also use the data from the recent census - changing the language that women use to describe themselves to make 0.2% more comfortable is disproportionate.

Thank you! You're doing the right thing!

explicitly includes transwomen having side effects from their "HRT" (Yes, I know! they get more space than trans men, who actually experience menopause).

This so fucks me off so well done for raising it @crunchermuncher . Transwomen do NOT have HRT ffs and you would have thought medical professionals would know this simple fact, ridiculous that they do not. As for the dismissal of transmen, well what a surprise they are just female after all.

Well done you Cruncher. I wouldn't worry about the fall out, you're dealing in biological reality not airy fairy nonsense.

Well done.

Transwomen having side effects from hormones has nothing to do with the menopause.

It's ok to have your views and ha have discussion. it's ok to arrange a meeting with the decision makers. What's not ok is force your unwanted views on others and be offensive to trans people.

It's easy to slip into that zone if it's something you feel passionate about. So think carefully about your words

Well done OP.

I'm not remotely surprised by health organisations taking about TW and HRT. They seem happy now to use 'cis', 'assigned at birth' and all the other rubbish terms, so why stop there?

All you can do is arm yourself with statistics & facts and use them while remaining polite in all your dealings.

There's that wonderful paper by Susan Bewley and others you could take a look at about the importance of language and accuracy in healthcare. It would be very hard to argue with it. I don't have the reference, perhaps someone will come along with it.

Do let us know how it goes. Best of luck.

What's not ok is force your unwanted views on others and be offensive to trans people.

And what about forcing unwanted opinions onto non-trans people, and offending THEM? Or trans people having to accept biological reality? Or does “choosing your words carefully” only work one way?

Why did you think the OP was being offensive to trans people, or that her views are unwanted?

It's just as offensive for an awful lot of women (the proper kind) being called CIS, and having the extremely offensive (to me) view that a transwomen deciding to take HRT is the same as the menopause.

@crunchermuncher, I'd hazard a guess that the silent majority of women will be in agreement with you, and that @maddy68 probably lives in a bit of an echo chamber if those are her views.

What's not ok is force your unwanted views on others and be offensive to trans people

What's offensive about pointing out that menopause affects women and not men?

Thanks for doing this, it's for the benefit of everyone to have clear medical information. I know it's uncomfortable, I'm expecting to go through this soon as we're looking at our policies.

I've noticed this before and it bothered me. If you look at the current NHS page for menopause there is no mention of women. If you look at what it said a few years ago though it is very clear this is something affecting women and gives some helpful stats on when it typically starts. These stats have been stripped out, presumably because it's hard to make them work if you're not just including women.

The screenshots with the 'Internet archive' banner at the top are of the old version.

Why does this matter? It's just less clear, helpful and human to me now. Yes most people looking for info on menopause know it affects women but I really think it's important that everyone can understand this stuff and it's explained clearly using explicit terms. I also don't see who this benefits as unclear and generic medical information is not helpful for anyone.

Well done OP

Menopause is a biological issue, it's insane that the NHS wouldn't address it as such. How are we supposed to trust their treatment if they don't don't the difference between male and female?

That's shocking BraveMaeve.
The NHS stripping out actual data about women's health in order to pretend that a specific women's health issue applies to certain men. Shame on them.

Argh I can't seem to reference any posts on my phone!

Thank you for the replies and suggested reading material, I am checking it out.

@maddy68 thank you for the reminder, it's a good point to watch out for becoming overly emotional when it's an issue one cares a lot about. And that is often counterproductive.

However, as others have said why does choosing words carefully only (ever) seem to be one way?

I made the point that the definition of menopause in general use, by many health organisations (including NICE) refers to it as specific hormone changes that women experience with age, so by changing that definition unilaterally they are introducing confusion.

I'm not asking trans people to share my views, I'm asking for clear, sex specific health care guidance. In a climate where women not taking up the offer of cervical screening is at an all time high, I would have though that clarity is paramount?

Thanks, from this menopausal woman. No male will ever experience menopause.

I take your point. But if you seem too aggressive with your stance. People stop listening and become defensive instead

And we all know that tiptoe language like this would never be used in an information leaflet pertaining to prostate cancer.

@viques Yes indeed! No one cares about trans men.

It's almost as if they don't have male privilege 🤦‍♀️

What is GC?

Insane the NHS acting like this. Thank you OP. I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut either.

@WimbyAce GC= gender critical, ie not believing that men can actually become women and vice versa.

Believing that sometimes, sex matters.