Possibly just outed myself as GC at work

[crunchermuncher]

I work in a large NHS trust. A menopause policy has been developed by HR and circulated for comment.

I was pleased about this development, until I clapped eyes on it. It talks about cis people, doesn't mention sex and explicitly includes transwomen having side effects from their "HRT" (Yes, I know! they get more space than trans men, who actually experience menopause).

I sent a carefully crafted reply that focuses on the importance of clear language, and refers to other health organisations who have approached the topic differently (ie not centring men). I have focused on potential risks of their approach, not just had a whinge.

I am now steeling myself for fall out!

Its ridiculous that I should feel this way for pointing out that sex matters in healthcare but we all know what's likely to ensue. But having been asked to reply I couldn't in conscience keep silent.

Please send me some encouragement!

Good on you OP. A previous employer of mine produced a very similar document that referred to transwomen undergoing “menopause” if they stopped taking hormones. Didn’t mention the word “woman” once. Despite a robust response from several actually menopausal females, we got absolute waffle in response and the policy remained as is.

That's so shite isn't it? Let's have a policy for/about women.

Oh but let's include some men who have a few similar symptoms for completely different reasons.

Cos that'll help with education and breaking down stigma, won't it?

It's like applying covid policies to someone with hayfever, because a few of their symptoms are the same. Makes no sense.

And obviously, any trans women suffering side effects of transistion need appropriate support. But that is already specifically covered in other policies, so there is no need to include with menopause.

...unless, you know, it's just to make them feel better.

But as others have said, what about women's feelings, ffs?

HUGE well done OP. I work for the NHS too, and can well imagine this kind of utter bollocks being passed around in my place.

Apparently my trust has appointed a 'Menopause Champion'. Woo hoo. But of course, you guessed it, it's a man. For actual fucks sake

The OP said she sent a carefully crafted reply to a policy that was circulated for comment.

So... her opinion was wanted, and her reply was carefully worded.

How much more careful do you want people to be when their opinions are sought? Apart from saying nothing when those opinions are the "wrong" ones? Maybe that's your point - dissenters should just shut up?

Maybe maddy68 should consider the words tras use, like all women who don't identify as cis which us actually really offensive, should

Be decapitated

Be raped

suck lady dick

Die in a fire

Is that the sort of inclusive non offensive language you'd like @maddy68 ?

Who the fuck comes up with the idea of choosing a bloke as menopause champion? It's mind boggling. As if I'd want to go and talk to a random male about menopause related issues!

@Lottapianos OMG are they totally fuckimg clueless?

I cannot imagine a man doing that job (and before someone calls sexism, in the same way i cant imagine a female 'prostate champion' either!) Alternative title: Chief Mansplainer?!

Pointing out that the menopause doesn't affect trans women isn't offensive. Any trans woman who finds it offensive is looking to be offended by wilfully misunderstanding.

'Who the fuck comes up with the idea of choosing a bloke as menopause champion? It's mind boggling. As if I'd want to go and talk to a random male about menopause related issues!'

Well, exactly. Although, rather maddeningly, I was sounding off to a female colleague about it, and she said she thought it was a good idea because men need to know what women deal with, and men need to be part of the conversation too, and blahblah 🙄

Solidarity, OP.

I recommend you record (or make notes) of all comms on the subject going forwrd.

There are various groups who can and will help you out if needed - Sex Matters probably the most pertinent.

I wonder if woken need to be part of the conversation about things that affect men?

It sends such a poor message - we couldn't trust women to do it, or maybe they will need to talk to men about yukky women's things, and we don't want the poor men getting embarrassed now do we? 🙄

I guess the only circumstances a male menopause champion might make sense is in an extremely male dominated environment- some messages might be better received? I dunno. Grasping at straws really.

And we're they just appointed or did they advertise and recruit and he was somehow more appropriate choice than any women? I'd love to see those interview notes....

Ha! I meant women, not woken!

My brother is very much a big trans supporter, and is heavily involved in various diversity schemes promoting the trans movement in the workplace.

He also works in healthcare, and when it comes to materials on his company’s website, etc, he realises sex matters when it comes to health and refers to men and women.

Putting aside my many disagreements with my brother over his views, it is very possible to be part of both. You don’t need to erase women and have men taking over everything to be supportive of those who are trans. It’s really not that difficult so not sure why some companies refuse to acknowledge that sex is still very relevant.

Rightsraptor · Today 13:37
Well done OP.

I'm not remotely surprised by health organisations taking about TW and HRT. They seem happy now to use 'cis', 'assigned at birth' and all the other rubbish terms, so why stop there?

All you can do is arm yourself with statistics & facts and use them while remaining polite in all your dealings.

There's that wonderful paper by Susan Bewley and others you could take a look at about the importance of language and accuracy in healthcare. It would be very hard to argue with it. I don't have the reference, perhaps someone will come along with it.

*Do let us know how it goes. Best of luck+

I don’t know if this is what you meant as it is not about general healthcare but related to childbirth. It is brilliant though and some of the same principles must apply.

Frontiers | Effective Communication About Pregnancy, Birth, Lactation, Breastfeeding and Newborn Care: The Importance of Sexed Language | Global Women's Health

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full?fbclid=IwAR2LxA0PL7cJ0SbS_Jq9df5jfLbCCwfVz86vd7aYWkeAq23liD_TpfEpuqA

@ArabellaScott thanks, I certainly plan to do that and have been perusing the sex matters site - lots of good info.

"But if you seem too aggressive with your stance. People stop listening and become defensive instead"

Terribly important that women manage our tone better when challenging our erasure. 🙄

@Lottapianos Of course, it has to be all about the men doesn't it? Centre stage at all times. FFS.

It can't be a coincidence that HR departments across multiple NHS trusts have all suddenly been captured.

So true! A lot of people were sympathetic to the trans movement until they realised how violently many of them like to put across their views.

OP, here you are. This might be helpful. loupreston.substack.com

Well done, OP. I can't imagine how we got to this state where random men feel that they have the right to any kind of comment about women's health. Only women go through menopause.

I'm a woman, I'm not cis, never will be. Transwomen can use whatever terms they want, I don't have to agree. I have biology on my side.

You’d think!
my previous employer insisted that menopause affected everyone because men live and work with menopausal women. Same as when men say ‘we’re pregnant’ 🙄

Just checked the NHS page for prostate cancer. 'Men' is used a few times (although surprisingly far into the page).

What the fuck NHS?

Give women their words back.