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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dept for Ed abandoning schools over children confused about their sex.

72 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/02/2023 20:54

A timely article from the Daily Mail quoting amongst others, the excellent Safe Schools Alliance about the total failure of the DfE to issue advice to schools about dealing with children confused about their sex. In the absence of this adult transactivists have stepped in with queer theory, anti safeguarding, adult centred "advice" that's doing so much harm to children:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11713447/Education-officials-accused-abandoning-teachers-opposed-pupils-changing-gender-young.html

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ScrollingLeaves · 05/02/2023 10:29

From the Government response to the first 10,000 signatures to the petition
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/630932?reveal_response=yes#response-threshold

Primary schools are not required to teach LGBT content but can choose to teach it in an age-appropriate way. The Department for Education has no plans to change its advice to schools on this subject.

eg schools can say anything they want.

What does ‘Age appropriate ‘ mean? Some people think children are trans from age two. Some people think chikdren are sexual.

Also, saying primary schools are not required to teach LGBT is muddled by the fact that PSHE lessons are mandatory.

I feel so angry that this is all they have to say. They couldn’t care less.

DarkOphelia · 05/02/2023 10:34

A possibly related issue here: I've recently been talking to two different MPs about another subject and the lack of viable outcomes, and both of them told me that the issue was the civil service.

If they don't like something, they pretty much won't do it. If you complain about it, they then accuse you of bullying.

One of them even said that "people think MPs run the country, we don't. It's the civil service." Apparently, the problem is all the way down, not just in Westminster, so even if Whitehall is fine, a policy can be stymied on a local level by a senior with a team of five in an office in Leeds.

It's a state within a state.

So if significant strata of the civil service have been captured by TRA rhetoric, it's possible that they are filibustering draft documents to constantly hold up rollout.

ResisterRex · 05/02/2023 10:35

Also if they're not required then why is this case being brought? Seems like the mum felt it was being forced:

Devout Christian claims son, 4, was forced to go to LGBT Pride parade

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/53428fd4-a279-11ed-be83-0b182bac2124?shareToken=de08ace3e1ada578447b3e7212d283ea

Indeed, this does look like the school went way, way too far:

“Montague attended a meeting with Papas on September 19 during which the head teacher’s daughter wore a T-shirt with the slogan: “Why be racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic when you could just be quiet?”, the court heard.”

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/02/2023 10:40

"I feel so angry that this is all they have to say. They couldn’t care less".

I share your anger Scrolling. They've presided over this shitshow. It's on their watch that the civil service was captured and the DfE feted / funded Mermaids and all the other dodgy groups. I've been writing to my MP for years and he gets responses from ministers. All the letters ignore challenges about child safety and welfare and peddle frankly dodgy views about inclusivity of mixed sex facilities.
I share your rage but am worried that as well as the institutional capture, they'll water things down because they won't want to acknowledge they got this so wrong.

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RayonSunrise · 05/02/2023 11:08

DarkOphelia · 05/02/2023 10:34

A possibly related issue here: I've recently been talking to two different MPs about another subject and the lack of viable outcomes, and both of them told me that the issue was the civil service.

If they don't like something, they pretty much won't do it. If you complain about it, they then accuse you of bullying.

One of them even said that "people think MPs run the country, we don't. It's the civil service." Apparently, the problem is all the way down, not just in Westminster, so even if Whitehall is fine, a policy can be stymied on a local level by a senior with a team of five in an office in Leeds.

It's a state within a state.

So if significant strata of the civil service have been captured by TRA rhetoric, it's possible that they are filibustering draft documents to constantly hold up rollout.

This is rubbish. Civil servants have to follow policy and apply legislation set by the government. If the government really wanted to change this, they could.

Your MP is too lazy to make a stink in the party and is fobbing you off with "deep state" nonsense. Don't let your MP off the hook.

Ofcourseshecan · 05/02/2023 11:26

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/02/2023 01:34

The problem isn't teaching about the LGB, it's the TQ. Children do not need to learn about queer theory and adult sexual paraphilias and utter nonsense about picking a fucking 'gender identity', and our girls should not be being told that their sex based boundaries are 'phobic'.

It’s exactly that. Stonewall thought it was a smart move adding TQ+ to the long-accepted LGB. Now LGB people are paying the price for something most of them didn’t want.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/02/2023 11:59

RayonSunrise · 05/02/2023 11:08

This is rubbish. Civil servants have to follow policy and apply legislation set by the government. If the government really wanted to change this, they could.

Your MP is too lazy to make a stink in the party and is fobbing you off with "deep state" nonsense. Don't let your MP off the hook.

I think it's both. The now sacked DfE senior civil civil servant, given an award by Stonewall for converting single sex toilets into mixed sex ones encouraged the welcoming of Stonewall and the other dodgy activist groups into schools. Add to that the cowardice of MPs not being prepared to stand up to trans extremism, the open breaching of the Nolan principles of conduct in public life by both MPs and civil servants (especially in relation to impartiality) and constant changes at senior government levels has resulted in this debacle in schools.
And STILL, schools allow some of the most unsuitable adult groups in the country to influence safeguarding, pastoral care and child mental health and wellbeing.

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DemiColon · 05/02/2023 12:13

It's absolutely all the way down.

In the end, this stuff has to percolate through all kinds of levels of administrative action, and then be instantiated in an actual school by the staff and teachers there.

There are all kinds of places along the way projects can be slowed down, put aside, and then in the end, the head of the school might just quietly ignore it all. Anyone whose worked in a highly bureaucratic organization where people don't get fired will know how to avoid initiatives that those in the organizations don't want.

That's been the brilliance of TRA orgs working through groups like SW directly on the people at those levels, and really avoiding too much interaction with political leaders, MPs, etc. There are plenty of people in organizations like education who are basically do-gooder numpties, and if you convince enough of those people you can create a lot of inertia without anyone making a real leadership decision.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/02/2023 16:37

Spot on DemiColon.
There's a culture of taking the initiative, exploring issues, pushing a new approach / project in schools. It can be really positive but unless senior leaders insist on a culture where everything is grounded, evidenced and risk assessed, as you point out, the do - gooder numpties prevail.
I know of a number of schools where headteachers have managed to keep these groups out of the school. Safeguarding's a priority, there's a diverse intake and the naive enthusiasm of teenagers for rainbow LGBT clubs is constructively diverted.

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TooBigForMyBoots · 05/02/2023 18:41

Keegan has not been in the post for long enough to have created the problem.

Keegan follows other TWAW, TRA, Conservative Sec of States for Education Nicky Morgan and Justine Greening.

TooBigForMyBoots · 05/02/2023 18:41

RayonSunrise · 05/02/2023 11:08

This is rubbish. Civil servants have to follow policy and apply legislation set by the government. If the government really wanted to change this, they could.

Your MP is too lazy to make a stink in the party and is fobbing you off with "deep state" nonsense. Don't let your MP off the hook.

Yep.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/02/2023 09:03

Daily Mail still putting pressure on the government in their comment section this morning:
"How illuminating that after the transgender prisoner row blew a hole in the logic of Nicola Sturgeon's shambolic gender reforms, support for her and Scottish independence has plummeted.
The public, unlike the SNP and Labour, are concerned that self-ID puts women and girls at risk from predatory males.
So this is the perfect moment for the Government to reiterate that teachers are under no legal obligation to refer to children who say they are trans by their 'preferred' pronouns, let them use toilets and changing rooms saved for the opposite sex, or keep their parents in the dark.
Whatever militant activists may claim, this position – set out by then attorney general Suella Braverman last year – is not transphobic. It is basic safeguarding.
But Education Secretary Gillian Keegan, who says 16-year-olds are mature enough to choose their own genders, is dragging her feet on publishing official guidance.
This dithering is bad for teachers, bad for parents – and bad for pupils".

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Springis · 06/02/2023 09:23

AutumnCrow · 04/02/2023 21:31

Gillian Keegan is an absolute liability for the Tories.

The Tories always stick the weakest member of their team in Education. They don’t see the damage done.

It’s so depressing.

Needmoresleep · 06/02/2023 09:23

Thanks. It is always interesting when a Mail editorial criticises Tory government policy. They know what is important to their readers, and if needed will remind the Government or individual ministers. I don't know thd extent the Guardian does this with the Labour Party. They won't on this issue. I suspect the Labour Party is weaker for not having informed feedback.

So will Keegan cave or quit? I assume she is getting similar pressure from cabinet colleagues.

rogdmum · 06/02/2023 10:55

Do we know if Gillian Keegan has spoken/corresponded with Hilary Cass and her Review Team? It might be worth people writing to DfE to ask and say if Gillian hasn’t, could she please ASAP- the more pressure on DfE the better.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 21:04

There's to be a mini reshuffle tomorrow. Thread:

twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1622700764312350721?s=46&t=Y2B6NJQkPuF4V4Jz1E68ew

Part of final tweet:

"Changes to the structure of government could create new cabinet posts in government

Also suggestions that there will be changes to DCMS"

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 21:15

This says that Kemi's department could be merged, so where does she go?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/21297656/rishi-sunak-rehuffle-split-business-department/

noblegiraffe · 06/02/2023 21:45

So this is the perfect moment for the Government to reiterate that teachers are under no legal obligation to refer to children who say they are trans by their 'preferred' pronouns, let them use toilets and changing rooms saved for the opposite sex, or keep their parents in the dark.

They can reiterate it all they like, but that's suggesting that schools are doing these things against their will.

No legal obligation to refer to preferred pronouns, but also no legal obligation not to.

That leaves it as up to schools as it ever has been, unless the government issues a prohibition.

And I suspect that's why the guidance isn't out yet. They 100% will not want to issue a prohibition.

Britinme · 06/02/2023 22:31

This same sort of stuff is happening on my side of the Atlantic too:
www.pressherald.com/2023/02/05/in-gender-clash-maine-schools-caught-between-parents-kids/

Thelnebriati · 06/02/2023 22:33

How similar is this to the way they ignored the epidemic of sexual abuse in schools, to the point where Justine Greening faced legal action?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/02/2023 22:37

Thelnebriati · 06/02/2023 22:33

How similar is this to the way they ignored the epidemic of sexual abuse in schools, to the point where Justine Greening faced legal action?

Indeed. This issue has escalated to frightening proportions - but understandably parents are reluctant to head to the courts as their vulnerable child is at the centre.
Any guidance that prioritises safeguarding and schools needing to remain politically neutral, exposes that this government have encouraged and enabled schools to breach both those requirements along with funding some very dodgy organisations.

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Needmoresleep · 06/02/2023 23:03

Important for schools, but equally this and Rishi's statement last week suggests that the Conservative cabinet is close to a united GC position.

Once there is a united policy it becomes easier for individual ministers (Suella, Kemi in particular) to get their colleagues to work together across departments to push things back.

Presumably with a silent opposition, in that Keir is unlikely to take an oppositional TWAW stance, which wouldbe an obvious vote loser, nor is there any sign that Labour are about to adopt a GC position. Sitting on the fence must be getting uncomfortable.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2023 06:27

Good to see that the Mail are persisting with this. Note the comment:
A source close to Mrs Keegan said: ‘Gillian knows what a biological woman is. "But she is not... someone who will form a really aggressive position on an issue which requires nuance, sensitivity and kindness".

It's those repeated demands for sensitivity & kindness that have allowed the queer theory addled groups to trample all over children's rights to safety from indoctrination by adults using them for their own validation. Schools need clear guidance, based on facts and safeguarding that allow children to safely develop. They must be protected from making catastrophic decisions about being the opposite sex while they're too young to understand the implications.
We need clear sighted politicians making decisions in the best interests of children and not pandering to toxic adult groups pushing their niche agenda.

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noblegiraffe · 07/02/2023 07:39

What are you hoping that the new guidance will do or say?

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