Men in conversation

[Bedusa]

Perhaps I'm late to the party in realising this, but does anyone else find that men almost never reciprocate in conversation?
I was with a few work colleagues yesterday (male dominated workplace) just making small talk whilst waiting for something. As we could all hear music playing from a neighbouring area (not too loud but definitely audible) I asked those present (all men) what they liked to listen to, what was on in their car. They all replied and joined in the conversation quite enthusiastically, but guess what, no one asked me. I notice this time and time again. Is it just me? I'm a fat middle aged woman which probably / possibly has a bearing on this I guess (presumably because I'm of no interest). But you'd think someone might just ask me something one time out of politeness?!

You should try internet dating. That's when you realise most British men have no interest in anyone but themselves. :(

Not the men I know. And if that happened to me I'd have piped up and asked them why they were being so rude or if I were invisible!

You could have just told them.

I’ve noticed this too. School dads - I’ll ask them how work is going or whether they had a good weekend and I’ll get loads of details, far more than I’m interested in. And no reciprocal question. So I know quite a lot about them and they know nothing about me. I’ve seen them do it to other women too - one spent hours telling a friend of mine about his hill walking and had no interest at all in asking anything about her.
Women don’t count as full persons to many men.

I see this a LOT. Usually with socially inadequate men, very happy to talk about themselves, no questions directed outwards. They do it to both DH and me so I don’t think it’s misogyny but bad manners arisen from a misplaced ego.

BTW I have started deliberately forcing them to engage, a recent example -interjecting when they went on and on about their Big Job to say “oh I worked there for several years”. They literally stopped in their tracks and you could almost hear the brain cogs whirring before they realised they would now have to acknowledge that and ask me something about it. Reluctantly of course. Actually thinking about it there probably is a degree of sexism in it. We women are primarily there to listen to these types of men, in their minds. Twits.

Some of them are just so self-centered they do it with other men too.

Hear hear... One of my last internet dates was the worst I'd seen for this. Not only did he not ask any questions, but when I tried to interject during his hour long monologue about his achievements in his hobby, I saw anger flash across his face. Then a shrug, and then back to himself. I can't forget the look he gave when I tried to speak. Yet he wanted another date. Why?!

Yet he wanted another date. Why?!

Cos he didn't get a jug of water in his face 😆

Men feel they are endlessly fascinating and I hate how I used to pander to that. I used to feel that my olace in this interaction was to allow them to occupy an entire conversation and if time allowed, I'd get a few words for myself.

The difference in dynamic and self awareness is interesting.

I've been on a series of zoom workshops recently, a couple were women only and the last two had one or two men as part of the group.

In the women only ones, the women talked freely to answer questions and pretty much everyone present commented at some point, and there were spontaneous comments when several people spoke at once such as 'your turn' to women who hadn't spoken yet. In the mixed sex ones, the man (or on one occasion men) answered every single question and dominated every conversation without the faintest awareness that they were preventing anyone else saying anything. And every time, without exception, the women kept quiet and barely participated. The impact of one man on a group of women and their access can be staggering.

I find it really rude when people do this. We find it more and more common. We have 2 mums that join us sometimes, and they do that. I feel talked at !! They tell you all what they want to say but never ask anything back, its wierd. I think society is becoming increasingly selfish and self-centred, though.

There has been a lot of discussion on these boards about how women are socialised to prioritise the emotional needs of others over their own, to be "support humans", to do all the "emotional labour".

There's a theory that this plays out in conversation too, by women doing all the "interactional shitwork" i.e. all the heavy-lifting in terms of making the conversation work and keep going. That theory was about conversations within couples, but it's what i always think of in these situations!

Here's a blog about it if anyone's interested.

debuk.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/a-womans-shitwork-is-never-done/

My ex's friends used to say to her "your husband is so quiet". I'm not, and can hold forth for some time but ex and her friends literally talked across each other and anyone else so I just sat mute. In hindsight it's quite funny really.

We were discussing sex differences in speech patterns on here the other day, no? Women's speech is very much more reciprocal and deferential, iirc. I'll see if I can find the article.

Completely agree with this

Guys do this with guys.

just as an example - I raised a topic on friday about something coming on tv soon, and i got 20 mins of them explaining why did or didn’t like season 1 and 2. I was trying to ask my intro question as a precursor to raising that apparently s3 has been made very differently, so i’m hopefull i will enjoy it. I didn’t bother.

People communicate differently.

And when men become women (#blergh #vomit) these characteristics don’t change.

And this is why I'm pleased my dd goes to a girls' school.

In our house it is known as ‘banging on’. It is not encouraged. ( even if they do sulk at first, they can be trained….)

I actually find this is my experience with people - male and female - in general. Talk about themselves happily but rarely ask me questions. And I find it more true of over 40s (I'm 47).

It's lovely to actually converse with someone and not just be talked at

In general I agree.

However, in the specific example, OP was making small talk to fill a boring moment and asked what music they had in their car.

In my experience people will enthusiastically talk about their favourite things with the slightest encouragement. It’s a ‘broadcast, not receive’ kind of topic. The chat was also a social space filler so I can understand people chipping in with what they like without turning the question back to the OP.

I definitely think there’s a difference in people having actual conversations and small talk to fill a gap while waiting for something which means the chat will be curtailed at any moment.

But yes, men are socialised differently and often aren’t great at listening to women.

I don't know why blokes do it.
I'm one and I couldn't tell you why.

When I think about it historically, in governments and councils, be they high or low, it was blokes that spoke - women were mostly kept away from public speaking.
A man's word was law in the household etc.

Perhaps old habits take a very long time to die, and they die hard.

The study

there’s been quites lot of research into this. It shows men dominate conversations in mixed sex groups

its the verbal equivalent of the space take up physically

It's even worse in some communities, where boys are socialised to believe they are superior to their sisters and mothers. The interactions in a work setting between men and women from the same background can be eye opening and not a little painful to see. Especially, if the woman is younger.

I was thinking as I read the recent posts of a few male colleagues who have the self awareness and emotional intelligence and don't do this. And other male colleagues who emphatically do.