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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“UKA has today outlined its position relating to transgender participation in athletics in the UK.”

224 replies

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 14:10

www.uka.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/UKA-Trans-Position-Statement_FINAL-03.02.23.pdf

This is what Jon Pike said was coming.

OP posts:
ihavespoken · 03/02/2023 14:26

I could cry with happiness! This is such a relief

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:27

I wonder how this will cascade down to amateur athletics. I compete and have lost prizes due to a transwoman. I wonder if this will be applied to situations like masters athletics, mass participation road running events etc which are still run under UKA rules. Which category you enter ie female/ male and your testosterone level being below the legal limit is done on trust as far I can see at the moment.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 14:27

So this has been building for a while:

The Project Group made a set of recommendations to the UKA Board in June 2022. However, this work was paused in November 2022 following 1) World Athletics’ stated intention to consult Member Federations about changes to its Transgender and DSD Regulations; and 2) legal advice from Leading Counsel in relation to the interaction between the sporting exemption in s.195 of the Equality Act 2010 (“EA 2010”) and the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (“GRA 2004”).

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 14:27

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:27

I wonder how this will cascade down to amateur athletics. I compete and have lost prizes due to a transwoman. I wonder if this will be applied to situations like masters athletics, mass participation road running events etc which are still run under UKA rules. Which category you enter ie female/ male and your testosterone level being below the legal limit is done on trust as far I can see at the moment.

Flowers
OP posts:
Fenlandia · 03/02/2023 14:30

I feared the worst when I clicked on this thread but it's great to see such clear language used to describe the reality of things. I will never stop being astonished that we have ever had to fight for such reality-based provisions at all.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 14:30

This is even more reason it seems to get this petition across the line:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=1

If you haven't signed it, please do. This debate needs to be had in Parliament. The Equality Act needs to be strengthened for many reasons, but now also for sport.

OP posts:
MigsandTiggs · 03/02/2023 14:31

334bu · 03/02/2023 14:26

Great news . Well done Sharron Davies and the other athletes brave enough to say how unfair this is.

💯Well done to them all!

donquixotedelamancha · 03/02/2023 14:33

That is a superb statement.

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 03/02/2023 14:34

Brilliant. I really support the move away from medicalisation. Pharmaceutical companies are making too much out of this

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 14:34

While I have everyone, there are some wonderful women athletes who have been very brave and vocal about this. Like Sharron Davies and Mara Yamauchi are just two.

If you are so inclined, this might be a way to have their efforts recognised.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4734084-womans-hour-sports-woman-of-the-yeat

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 14:35

Good news.

BellaAmorosa · 03/02/2023 14:38

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:27

I wonder how this will cascade down to amateur athletics. I compete and have lost prizes due to a transwoman. I wonder if this will be applied to situations like masters athletics, mass participation road running events etc which are still run under UKA rules. Which category you enter ie female/ male and your testosterone level being below the legal limit is done on trust as far I can see at the moment.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, wouldn't the requirement of "female at birth" rule out males in your races at all levels? And the policy states explicitly that it is ditching testosterone suppression as an eligibility pathway.

DodoPatrol · 03/02/2023 14:40

That seems sensible.

Quite apart from the fairness to women, it's so odd for a transwoman to dope with testosterone-reducing drugs and be artificially weakened. What a way to treat an athlete's body. Just don't alter it, and race with the same sex.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 03/02/2023 14:40

Hurrah!

Particularly point 13, and the spelling out of point 5.

StressedToTheMaxxx · 03/02/2023 14:42

Fantastic.

KohlaParasaurus · 03/02/2023 14:45

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:27

I wonder how this will cascade down to amateur athletics. I compete and have lost prizes due to a transwoman. I wonder if this will be applied to situations like masters athletics, mass participation road running events etc which are still run under UKA rules. Which category you enter ie female/ male and your testosterone level being below the legal limit is done on trust as far I can see at the moment.

It's difficult to see how it would be policed given how little attention is given to testing for PED use in masters' athletics. But I stand by every woman who cares about being bumped down a place in a race of any level because Jennifer-who-used-to-be-Simon registered as a woman even if it's the difference between being 35th or 36th in the F60 category.

Parkrun too. Don't tell women that we should only be competing against ourselves and that female age category course records/WAVA records being held by transwomen are a worthwhile price to pay for inclusion. Those records belong to women. Give them back. (Not to me, I should add, but I'm involved enough to know that age doesn't stop women from wanting fair competition.)

HandShoe · 03/02/2023 14:49

Sensible and clear. Wonderful news.

Cherry60 · 03/02/2023 14:52

Fantastic, absolutely unequivocal - it can be done!

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:53

BellaAmorosa · 03/02/2023 14:38

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, wouldn't the requirement of "female at birth" rule out males in your races at all levels? And the policy states explicitly that it is ditching testosterone suppression as an eligibility pathway.

I think you are correct, I wonder how transwomen who currently compete will react to this, if you do a low key race you literally fill in a form, tick your age and category and that's it. We will be relying on honesty and integrity to select the right category.

puffyisgood · 03/02/2023 14:53

KohlaParasaurus · 03/02/2023 14:45

It's difficult to see how it would be policed given how little attention is given to testing for PED use in masters' athletics. But I stand by every woman who cares about being bumped down a place in a race of any level because Jennifer-who-used-to-be-Simon registered as a woman even if it's the difference between being 35th or 36th in the F60 category.

Parkrun too. Don't tell women that we should only be competing against ourselves and that female age category course records/WAVA records being held by transwomen are a worthwhile price to pay for inclusion. Those records belong to women. Give them back. (Not to me, I should add, but I'm involved enough to know that age doesn't stop women from wanting fair competition.)

In parkrun, as far as I know, there's never been any checks on entries, rather, entrants' declared sex and age have been accepted at face value. Maybe that'll always have to be the case, just on grounds of resources (e.g. I'm forever getting emails asking me to volunteer to steward in my local kids' one).

In practice, observance of rules like this will be observed more strongly the higher up you go in terms of standards.

Itisbetter · 03/02/2023 14:54

❤️

Galarunner · 03/02/2023 14:58

As an amateur athlete I was 4th in a national championship, probably my greatest sporting achievement. I never got my rightful bronze medal, the person who was first was trans. They have retrospectively lost some of their titles, but there was no policy in place on transgender athletes when I was competing, so they haven't reallocated prizes. This does confirm my moral victory though.

Circumferences · 03/02/2023 15:01

Holy shit.

I saw your thread title and had to take a few deep breaths before clicking, even tried ignoring it for a bit because it caused such anxiety, but I was compelled to look. Pleased I did!

We've all gotten so used to hearing the worst from supposedly intelligent people in power. This has come as a complete surprise, and such a joyful one.

Villagetoraiseachild · 03/02/2023 15:01

May the 'outbreak of sanity ' keep on trucking!
Great news, thanks for sharing.

Lengokengo · 03/02/2023 15:03

Great news and thanks for the link and idea above about voting for sportswoman of the year for Woman’s hour.

i voted for her in the ‘changemaker’ category