What do you tell your children?

[Sotiredofallthisnonsense]

This is a two way question really

Luckily I realised this was all going on and I have been able to give my kids (particularly the older one who is exposed to it more) the confidence to stick to reality based facts.

However, I have a younger child and I'm currently doing all I can to make sure she has single sex provision at school because currently she does not. She is learning about 'rights' at school at the moment and I feel very frustrated that I have to almost hide the fact that her own school are not fulfilling their legal duties to provide her with privacy to go to the bathroom away from boys - this is a right she currently has which she is deprived of by the school. The reason the school are doing this is because they want to condition her to accept that she shouldn't have such rights and to make it easier in future to remove. I feel its my responsibility as a parent to counteract this. But how do I achieve this without making my child confused and paranoid about why people who are charged with her care and wellbeing doing this?

Also - I know there are a lot of older children for whom the propaganda mill got there first and it causes a lot of tension in the family - do you discuss this openly with them? How did you first realise this was happening?

I tell DD that all of it is total bollocks.

I also took away apps from her phone that I thought were promoting ideologies I didn't want her exposed to.

I’m very blunt and say some people believe they can change sex, but that’s not true, and that toys and hobbies and clothes and favourite colours don’t define someone’s sex. And that men going into women’s spaces like toilets and changing rooms is wrong. And that they are allowed to complain about that. The Boy In The Dress actually had a good teachable moment in it for this.

Oh, and I always use the word sex. My daughter tried to say I meant gender and I corrected her and told her that gender was a load of sexist bullshit.

I tell my children the truth. They know about racism and sexism and people who treat the disabled as less. How do you help them by hiding any of this from them?

This.

we tell our daughter she can wear what she wants and call herself anything she likes but she was born female and will die female.

we also discuss how brilliant it is to be a girl a LOT.

"I tell my children the truth. They know about racism and sexism and people who treat the disabled as less. How do you help them by hiding any of this from them?"

Because it is akin to telling a child of colour that their school is racist, and that their teachers who they are of are too. This would be incredibly damaging to their relationship

*who they are fond of.

The usual - people can dress and look how they want but they can't change their sex. I do a lot of refuting "intersex" bollocks. Also DS who is 15 and has a trans friend, is constantly calling stuff "gay" and every time I point out that if any of his friends were gay then transing the gay away to get away from his casual homophobia would be an option. On one hand he spouts the Stonewall line but if you ask him who is an 'actual' boy, he knows.

I have a 10 year old DS and we talk about this on occasion. He has always been slightly 'gender non-conforming' in that for most of his life he has had long hair, went through a Barbie and My Little Pony phase and he has always been a little fixated on the idea of having children. We talk about how your sex doesn't determine what you enjoy but it does mean there are some physical differences. He was gutted when he was little to learn that he'd never get pregnant or breastfeed but accepts that he can be a dad instead.

He knows that as of around now, the boys in his class will be starting to get a little stronger and faster than the girls, so he needs to bare that in mind when they are playing. And that the difference will increase more and more through their teens and into adulthood. I tell him about the differences between males and females in terms of health, reactions times, memory recall, reading facial expressions, etc. So that he knows that there are advantages and disadvantages to being either male or female but that neither is better and we compliment each other by each having strengths that help us survive.

He knows that some people want to be the opposite sex and may try to change their bodies and appearance to look more like the opposite sex. But that they can't really change. He knows that some people decide they are neither sex and say they are non-binary but that they are still male or female. He's a fan of the youtuber Mr Beast who has been accused of transphobia for a variety of stupid reasons and that has annoyed DS. He has concluded from the Mr Beast stuff that people can decide to be non-binary if they want but that if they try to ruin the things that most people enjoy, they are annoying and need to stop.

My kids know I think gender identity and ideology is a load of complete bollocks, that people can believe what they want about themselves but what they can’t force me to do is believe it too or compel my speech (eg pronouns)

I've always told my kids that there is nothing boys can do that girls can't and vice versa (obviously this gets a bit different when you're talking about teens/adults but we haven't got into baby-making and male strength yet). They've seen boys wear dresses when young and we've had conversations about how many don't because everyone thinks there is some special reason that only girls wear dresses, but really there isn't a reason.

I've always been keen to shoot down bullshit gendered statements about 'boy activities' and 'girl personalities' etc, so I would be a massive hypocrite to turn around and say 'but actually having a certain personality or liking certain things is only for boys/girls and actually means you ARE a boy/girl'.

I grew up in London in an area with the highest % of black and ethnic minorities.
The black kids are constantly being told that school is racist, shops are racist, police are racist, workplaces are racist, literally all the time.

I don't see that any different to telling your child that perhaps the school is sexist.
No point sheltering her.

If your daughter is being forced to share toilets and changing rooms with boys who think that they're girls, then we have to be that parent and challenge the schools. They're creating an environment that is hostile to girls. If recent events about male rapists in women's prisons isn't making them reconsider, then parents need to.

Guidance from Sex Matters in collaboration with Transgender Trend & Safe Schools Alliance that clarify the law (not Stonewall's fake law) that help:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Single_Sex_Toilets_and_Changing_Facilities_factsheet

I’ve started off with talking to my boys about sexism. That will be my foundation. I do need to start to address this more directly, though. I want to start to do more critical thinking stuff with them so they understand how to think critically about ideas presented to them. thankfully their school does not appear to have done much at all on gender ideology, so haven’t felt much pressure.

I am that parent. I have written to the head, complained to the council, am pestering councillors. All parents I've spoken to are horrified that they're all sharing the same toilets but then do nothing. I'm just at the stage where I need to tell my daughter that her school is breaking the law and they are hypocrites to be attempting to educate them on rights when they are depriving her of her own set of rights

DS is 12 and has always been taught that there's no such thing as boy colours and girl colours, or boy toys and girl toys, etc, and when he asked for a pink pushchair from the charity shop, I bought it without demur.

His primary school friend's dad is a TW who passes for adult human female about as well as my axolotl does. which has enabled us to have many useful discussions about women's spaces.

He also has a couple of contemporaries - one of each sex - who have dabbled with their gender identity. The boy detransitioned a couple of years later (it's a horrifying tale, which I shall tell on here one day) and the girl is not allowed by her parents to pretend she's a boy, although DS asks me to call her by her chosen name when she comes round. I'll happily do that, but I've told him I won't refer to her as 'he' because she's not, and never can be, male.

The main thing I've tried to impress upon him is that no matter what anyone says, you cannot change biological sex.

I tell my offspring what’s what, in an age-appropriate way. And I am ‘that parent’, too. One day those gullible teachers will be grateful, not that I expect any thanks.

So sorry to hear all this Sotiredofallthisnonsense - and well done for being that parent. Maybe one of the organisations mentioned above would be prepared to intervene?
Have you spoken to Sex Matters? Is the recent Employment Tribunal ruling about mixed sex about toilets any help?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4733947-extremely-useful-womens-toilets-decision-just-released-by-the-eat

You make a very good point circumferences, I think I'm just so sad it's come to this but you're right it's a reality already for so many.

MrsOverton - would they be able to? I'm really not sure what I can do next other than keep hassling councillors/MSP. I can't publicly lead any kind of campaign as I'd probably lose my job

@Sotiredofallthisnonsense
Because it is akin to telling a child of colour that their school is racist, and that their teachers who they are of are too. This would be incredibly damaging to their relationship
You think parents should just pretend it isn’t and let their children ingest the atmosphere themselves?😱.
No. That’s not a good idea

You are of course right. I'm just so fucking angry at the damage being caused. It's an otherwise great school and I don't want to create an adversarial relationship as it really harms childrens learning.

I explained the gender is the rules which a society try to impose on (primarily) women and girls as a means of control. We compared the gender rules of the Roman/Medieval/Victorian eras.

I explained that when I was a child, feminists fought so I knew I could do anything (sports, hobbies, job) and wear anything I liked. It was a time to get rid of gender rules as they stopped people from living the life they wanted.

Now there are people in society who say there must be gender rules. These people either often confuse personality with gender or they want to go back to Victorian gender rules.

Your sex does not mean you must follow any stereotypical path. You should be open to choose whatever job, hobby or sport you like. You should be able to wear any clothes you like.

My younger DD i (10 next month) is "gender non conforming". After years of hearing she shouldn't do X as shes a girl.. she gets extremely annoyed and vocal if anyone tries to insinuate she is anything but a girl. Also as she plays Rugby, which can only play mixed until U11 level, is well aware that there are physical differences as she gets older.

Maybe hearing "miss you are breaking the law by making me go to the toilet with the boys" will shock them into action more?