Elite sports people speaking up!

[Signalbox]

There seems to be an increasing number of sports people speaking up about the problem of males completing in women's sports which is positive. Thought it might be useful to have a thread of those who are risking sticking their heads above the parapet. Obviously the likes of Sharon Davies, Mara Yamauchi and Martina Navratilova have been bravely doing this for sometime but now we appear to have a few current athletes as well who are prepared to risk the mob to ensure women have fair competition. Is it too much to hope for that there will be a snowball effect?

I'm not objecting to UK kids being tested - but I don't think it would solve the problems were are seeing in sport at the moment.

I do think everything that can be done to detect DSD should be done and as early as possible to save individual from recieving a shock at some point in their life. But when it comes to the abuse of the female category in sports I think sporting bodies need to to take a stand and realistically no sporting body is going to test all 10 year olds on the off chance that one of those children goes on to the Olympics one day. I feels it's much more achievable to say all people must undergo verification of which category they should compete in via a cheek swab to be eligible to take part in regional or above sport be that at under 12, under 15, under 18 or adult level. So if you are picked for your county/region at 12 you are tested, if you take up your sport at uni you are tested when compete at uni level etc. once you have been tested that test will be valid for every sport/ age group/standard so it is one and done.

Sporting bodies won't want to invest time, money and resources into people if they know they will be ruled ineligible as soon as they hit a certain level so it will be in their interest to determine that any potential competitors will be able to progress. Education doesn't have the same vested interest in ensuring that everyone was correctly sexed at birth.

OK, I think I see where you are coming from - that what should decide when to test is not the age of the child but the level of competition, which is reasonable. I am a bit torn because I remember how proud a friend's mum was, even in late middle age, at having won a school long jump competition when she was 10. That was the pinnacle of her sporting career! She shouldn't be denied that first place finish as a girl.

Having said that, I admit I have no idea how much it would cost, or how practical it would be, to take and process cheek swabs for millions of kids every year.

If we are making it a state responsibility it should be done at birth, that way no child is raised as one sex only to discover ten years down the line that they are in fact the other but the reality is this won't be implemented across the globe so the onus should be on sporting bodies. They need to ensure that no one is able to enter the wrong category - if they know people will be tested at say the Olympics they will test much sooner than this because they don't want to waste their time training someone who is then rejected. The current mess has arisen because everyone knows there isn't any sex testing so either accidently or intentionally athletes can be entered as female when they aren't and nothing will stop it from happening.

When my child was in neonatal almost 6 years ago there was a family in the next cot whose child had a DSD - it was very clear from the medical staff that the baby was absolutely a boy even if his physical body was ambiguous.

All that is needed is for the rules to state - as they do in athletics, swimming, rowing and rugby - that eligibility for the female competition is based on competitors being genetically female and that any queries be referred to a doctor.

It does not mean that every athlete be tested at the age of 10.. this is a very rare condition that is usually determined at birth, and in the extremely unlikely case that it is not, it is discovered during puberty. Once it becomes obvious, that athlete, their coaches and the organisations will know that this athlete is no longer eligible.

So, there may be a very very small number of athletes that compete in their teens in the wrong category - that would be OK - it would be excusable and every woman on the planet would be OK with that, as long as they did not continue to insist on the right to compete in a category for which they were not eligible.

Athletes who compete internationally, are seen by doctors - for all sorts of things, it is not invasive, it is not discriminatory, it is not dehumanising.

The ONLY reason this has come about - is because athletes knowingly entered the female category, on the basis that their sex might remain unknown and this happened because the IOC dropped the requirement for sex testing in 1999. It took 10 years for DSD athletes to appear on the world stage.

Womens Football and Womens boxing have not been as popular as Athletics in countries where there is a higher likelihood of babies being assigned the wrong sex at birth.

BUT: the Football and Boxing international organisations, have not followed the lead of Athletics and they have failed to defended the female category. None of these athletes are competing against the rules, the rules are failing to ensure the fairness in the female category.

https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/11/27/taiwans-olympic-medallist-lin-yu-ting-quits-boxing-event-over-gender-issue

Something is happening in the world of boxing!

Absolutely - in practice there is no need for millions of test - just those who are potentially in the wrong category - the minute there is the slightest suspicion that a girl could in fact be a DSD boy it should be in the interest of sporting bodies to confirm their sex, where as the current state of affairs does the opposite - it allows sporting bodies to actively seek boys with DSD who have been wrongly recorded as girls and channel them into sports. This is exploitative of the individuals involved, unfair to women and in case contact sports dangerous. It needs the sporting authorities to take a stand and close the loop holes that unscrupulous parties a exploiting before more damage is done.

Exactly.
International athletes of both sexes have to wee in a cup while a stranger watches to ensure no tampering occurs to a urine sample being tested for banned substances.

A cheek swab for chromosomes and a physical examination by a qualified doctor is not a big deal in comparison (obvs minors should always be accompanied to the doctor’s appointment by a parent or other guardian and possibly an additional chaperone too).

The nonsense from the Taiwanese is clearly an attempt to control the narrative. It’s easy to see through.

This doesn’t quite fit the thread title as the man in the article is a local (California) surf coach rather than an elite competitor but he has definitely spoken up (encouraged to do so by one of his terfy female students):

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-details-male-surf-coach-registers-for-womens-surf-contest-to-highlight-hypocrisy-of-inclusive-sport-policies/

Story in a more mainstream (local news) source: lookout.co/transgender-surfing-santa-cruz-women-waves/

here’s the sea lion story, for anyone whose interest is piqued! https://awesomeocean.com/video/surfer-saved-adorable-sea-lion-pup/

What a joke. If World Boxing lack clear regulatory polices on what basis could they possibly justify excluding an unambiguously female boxer?

It was to be Lin’s first international competition since Paris, but she withdrew after World Boxing questioned her eligibility, Taiwan’s Sports Administration said in a statement on Wednesday.

“She is female, meets all eligibility criteria, and successfully participated in the women’s boxing event [in Paris], winning a gold medal,” the statement said.

“Unfortunately, as World Boxing is newly established and still navigating the development of its operational mechanisms, it lacks the clear regulatory policies of the IOC that ensure the protection of athletes’ rights,” it said, referring to the International Olympic Committee.

Didn't even need to pretend to be "trans" let alone a woman...

When Nold arrived at the contest site, he was “assailed with questions” about his “gender identity” by two event organizers. Speaking to Reduxx, Nold says he did not misrepresent himself at any point during the registration process, and instead followed the very vague guidelines the contest had established.

“We were not sneaking. We did not lie. We did not have to fabricate anything. I did not even have to identify as anything. I participated based on the exact requirements,” Nold says. “The only place the word ‘woman’ appears is in the contest title. Everything else referred to ‘people who love the water’ or ‘people who support women’s surfing.’ That’s me. I fit that bill!”

I was coming here to link this. Love it

“In the conversations we had with the event organizers over the course of the weekend, it was very clear that they thought that if Nold identified as a female, then it would have been okay for him to be out there,” Pillari said in a statement she provided to Reduxx.
“This is why I entered him. Everyone who saw this spectacle could agree that he didn’t belong out there … His positivity and encouragement of the other girls in the lineup couldn’t make up for the undeniable fact that he is a man,” Pillari notes. “And so, I ask, would it be so different if he thought he was a woman? Would it change anything about his ability to out-paddle the strongest female in the lineup? If he had shaved his beard and painted his nails, would he have been any less male?”

“What is wrong with having a male in the contest is that it’s a women’s contest, period,” Tatum said. “In my mind, this includes transgender women, but not males.”
Scotia Macgillivray, a trans-identified male who competed at WOW this year, similarly claimed that there was “no similarity” between males and trans-identified males participating in women’s surfing, adding that he had become so “weakened” by female hormones that he could “barely unscrew beverage container tops.”
In her article, Monroy also suggested that Pillari was simply bitter for having previously “lost” to a trans-identified male, something Pillari clarified to Reduxx was untrue.

Scotia sounds like a right prick.

But so what if women ARE bitter about being beaten by males in female categories? Seems to me like a really reasonable justification for being bitter as fuck.

It makes a welcome change to see an actual sea lion on FWR.

I noted that in Scotia's linked piece he calls himself a lesbian and a feminist after talking about being made fun of for seeming gay as a kid. Yada yada yada, women should accept men in their sports.

Not sure if this is the best thread but green (white and violet) shoots in Spain

https://archive.ph/N4iZQ

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/03/spains-socialists-ban-trans-women-from-female-sports/

Hoping they'll see it through and it's the start of the roll back.

Great news and as it's a socialist party, it's a good model for our Labour Government to follow. Please let the Spanish govt keep their nerve!

Spain’s ruling Socialist party intends to ban transgender women from competing in female sports and to remove the Q+ from the LGBTQ+ acronym.

It's a shame they haven't also split off the T, but hopefully that will come.

Another good article by Oliver Brown in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/WWkh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/12/03/football-feeble-gesture-politics-curse-of-modern-game/

I admit to a little disquiet about refusal to wear rainbow armbands. I wonder if it's homophobia in some cases, and, if it was just about acceptance, why not support transpeople? But Stonewall ensures it's not just that.

Anyway, the article neatly skewers the hypocrisy of the FA. One person's faith permits them to ditch the rainbow without censure. However, another player's faith doesn't, and I think the compromise he made by adding his own message was rather nice. Unfortunately

Where Guehi has transgressed, apparently, is in flouting the Football Association rule not to use equipment to promote political, religious or personal slogans. And yet what is the armband itself, if not a campaign slogan?

Then there's the FA shitting all over women players only five minutes, it seems, after their long belated apology for banning their game. You'd be forgiven for thinking they only allowed a women's game when they realised it was actually an opportunity for more men to play.

Where Guehi has transgressed, apparently, is in flouting the Football Association rule not to use equipment to promote political, religious or personal slogans. And yet what is the armband itself, if not a campaign slogan?

Well, quite. The rainbow is a political statement, so the FA are being hypocritical here.

The FA are a joke.

However...although I don't have any truck with BLM the organisation or official movement, I don't object to players as a group deciding to take the knee as a gesture against racism. Racism has loomed large in the lives of many of the players as individuals, so to me it's like ex-servicemen making a gesture about the toll of war. That may not be the best comparison but what I mean is that it's not an empty, virtue-signalling gesture.

I don't think gestures should be enforced by the players' association, but I am also pretty sure that some players or clubs would cop a lot of flak from fans if they didn't participate. So it's tricky from that aspect as well.

Ditto with the rainbow in women's football (not the progress flag). Being lesbians and playing football has been a very personal battle for female footballers in Europe, so I can understand why they want to express solidarity and prii. Of course, they should ditch the T, and it frustrates me so much to hear female players or ex-players chirruping their support for males in the women's game, whether or not they mean MCW or males with DSDs.

But to come back to the main point of the article, the FA should not be prescribing political messages for the players to support.

Love this:
"Double standards in rainbow armband row show how sloganising has led to regressive anti-female policy being mis-sold as progressive crusade"

The FA are a misogynistic shambles.

The FA are a joke.

Always have been and are corrupt to their core.

Religious Beliefs and Sexual Orientation are both protected by the EQ10, like Sex and Gender Reassignment are, so it’s interesting to witness another clash, especially such a high profile one. Clashes are inevitable in an open society so I am intrigued to see how the FA and individual clubs respond.

No one should be compelled by an employer to make or wear a political statement they don’t agree with.

(but it should also be made clear to all religious orgs that U.K. law considers same sex marriage to be equal to opposite sex marriage even if the law stops short of forcing religions to participate in creating those marriages).