Update on changes to transgender prisoner policy framework

[ickky]

Couldn't see this anywhere here.

Not perfect but better than nothing.

www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework?fbclid=IwAR0P6HBACGyN1GzcNumX92RqJtCenpQyM_uvUsH65mOop-ciJogfHM9ZJLI

It's a start.

👏👏👏

It is a start.

It’s a decent start I’d have thought.

How does that square with the GRR Bill? (Sorry, don’t know the full details).

@OneSugar1 - I think this only applies to England and Wales, so not Scotland and therfore the GRR is irrelevant.

I'm concerned about the 'exceptional circumstances' mentioned in it. I wonder how exceptional they will actually have to be.

While I understand their reasoning about male genitalia, because I used to think like that too, I think it's irrelevant now. Men are men, we know and see here how males who've had genital surgery still behave like the rest of their brothers far too often.

But, as someone else has said, it's a start.

Now let's wait for the wailing and gnashing of teeth from certain quarters.

I'll take it as a small win. What I think we need is a series of small wins just like this one, so the line can be moved back to where it should be.

Whoop 🙌 good news!

Next step; no men in women's prsions AT ALL, EVER

It is, it's just E&W.

I'm glad women in E&W prisons will be further protected.

While I understand their reasoning about male genitalia, because I used to think like that too, I think it's irrelevant now.

I agree, they really need the third space, there is no other way.

I also think if they were to bring in the third space, it would only need to be a very small one as I think the numbers would dwindle fairly quickly.

It'll happen in Scotland soon Arabella. I feel sure the tide is turning.

Crumbs.

More than 90% of transgender women in prison are housed in men’s prisons

So what on earth is the problem with housing the other 10% there too?

First, let's get those special meetings that the MoJ sets up to discuss how to wedge male sex offenders into the women's estate. They involve some very self interested groups / individuals who have no business influencing the treatment of women in prison. Otherwise they'll continue to find find all sorts of "exceptional circumstance" that continue to erode women's safety.
There are no "exceptional circumstances" that can be applied to male born rapists, sex offenders and paedophiles to justify them being housed alongside women.
Let the MoJ redirect the money spent on that into improving resources for pregnant women in prison.

Waiting for my learned friends to come and tell us we are wrong for celebrating that convicted rapists balls will not be incarcerated with women...

Is there any data for the number of TW in prisons who have had full surgery? My guess is very few, but I'd be interested to know for sure.

Broadly, I think it's a good start. Yes theoretically a TW who has undergone surgery could still be in a women's prison, but as above, I suspect very few!

I'm interested by this paragraph though. Transgender women who cannot be held safely in either the male or female estate can be held in a specialist unit. Is that not going to need a lot of resources?

The last line is particularly hopeful that third spaces are now being considered, which I think is the best resolution for everyone:
Transgender women who cannot be held safely in either the male or female estate can be held in a specialist unit.

Argh X post sorry

In my view there is no exceptional circumstance that requires any male prisoner to be housed in the female prison estate - none, nada, zilch, zero - so no need for any meetings or thought about it.

They've already got the answer anyway: Transgender women who cannot be held safely in either the male or female estate can be held in a specialist unit.

But remove the female estate bit as that should NEVER be an option.

Interested that the presumption is being firmly set the other way now.

I wonder if the door has had to be left open for 'exceptional circumstances' for DSD situations, however it seems clear that these really will have to be exceptional and makes use of the reference to TQ+ specialist units and against the general women's population.

It is indeed a start.

I'd like to know more about the implication that all male prisoners currently in the women's estate will be reviewed, although I'd like clarity because that sounds like a grandfather clause to me.

And I'd also like to know specifically: what about male prisoners who hold the legal fiction of being women and have male genitals or a history of sex offences?

Thanks for the clarification RightsRaptor 👍

I'm interested by this paragraph though. Transgender women who cannot be held safely in either the male or female estate can be held in a specialist unit. Is that not going to need a lot of resources?

I must confess my knowledge of prison is limited to watching Prisoner Cell Block H years ago, but I would imagine they could be accommodated in a separate wing of the prison.

Bring on the extra resources. Gold plate the bloody extra resources. Just stop putting any men in the women's estate.

Men, however they identify, should never be held in women's prisons. Put them in with the nonces if they need protection.