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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Onlyfans - good or bad for feminism?

214 replies

JustGraduated · 25/01/2023 20:07

Hi all - I’m new here so not sure if this is the right topic for this forum. Sorry if it isn’t but would love to hear your opinions! Also sorry for how long this is!!!

I recently graduated from uni & one of my housemates (and best friends) had an onlyfans page. It was the cause of disagreement between her and our other housemate (and friend) who is a really strong feminist.

She is stunning and loved doing it, so regularly posted on it & did really well (like insane well). She made enough to cover tuition fees, rent, bills & a whole lot more beside. And don’t get me wrong she works hard on it.

Our other housemate was strongly against it. Saying that it was demeaning her as a female & that she should stop it if she respected herself.

The three of us all get on really well and besides a few little arguments between the two of them it never caused anything serious.

I just want to know what you guys think. Can you be a feminist and on Onlyfans? I often play with the idea of starting my own, especially when I look at my student loan debt and how well my friend did!

OP posts:
TangledWebOfDeception · 25/01/2023 22:58

@greyfox82 that’s why I said, perhaps for a tiny, tiny minority. I accept that for a very select few that might legitimately be the case. But not for the vast majority. And I don’t think ‘empowerment’ trumps all.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/01/2023 22:58

i read the OP and scrolled to the end. For the first time I am commenting without reading the comments. Forgive me Justine, did I am about to sin…

written by a man.

”stunning”

I see you

Crikeyalmighty · 25/01/2023 22:59

@Alphavilla exactly what goes around comes around!! And those who say itcwoukdnt bother them at all, see how you feel at 60 with the odd ailment and not feeling quite as confident or gorgeous and finding your partner on these sites and paying for it too

Boiledbeetle · 25/01/2023 23:03

AuntSallie · 25/01/2023 22:44

@Boiledbeetle
Yes, as mothers we do advise our daughters and have more liberty to influence their decisions. Much more than we’d ever presume to do with another woman who is not our own child.

It’s a conundrum when thinking about what say should society have regarding the choices women have that could potentially harm them. A balance has to be struck.

How protective should we (society) be of women by banning/outlawing/stigmatising certain choices vs how much do we (society) value the emancipation of women such that they are free to make their own choices?

You see this often in terms of how do we prevent exploitation of the vulnerable without infantilising them? But with women it is very sticky because half of the we contributing to the discussion are men. A part of me certainly feels that men should have no say on womens issues.

Now you see I never got to be a mother, due to problems caused from the sexual disease and the subsequent pelvic inflammatory disease from the pervert who if he was around today would be using only fans to find his victims, he wasn't fussy, 6 - 80 is his known age range of victims.

Using children's and women's bodies for sexual satisfaction of a man is never OK.

And the women who think it should be an option, or it's empowering, it's should never need to be an option that a women feels she needs to sell her self in that way. And it's not empowering, it's really not.

In an ideal society any women feeling like for whatever reason sex work was the right choice shouldn't be forced into it, or think it's an option. the help and support to find a better way should be an option though.

NotBadConsidering · 25/01/2023 23:04

AuntSallie · 25/01/2023 22:54

@NotBadConsidering
But the women “freely choosing” make up a tiny fraction of the entire users. Most are doing it out of desperation or exploitation. And if someone is genuinely freely choosing, and they aren’t desperate or being trafficked or exploited, they legitimise such a pathway for women who may be on the brink of “free choice”.

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

How is what a woman chooses impacting any other women? If a woman chooses not to use OF, it’s not going to save a woman who is on there due to exploitation or desoeration. This goes back to the example of a woman chooses to clean houses to make some extra cash, would she be legitimising a pathway to exploitation of desperate women who end up also cleaning houses?

Im not following your logic? Is it that women who choose OF, are taking money away from women who desperately need it more than them? But doesn’t that then reinforce the idea that sex work is expected and only accepted if you are desperate?

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

Not the women that freely use. The women that freely use and talk about it in a glorifying manner. I do think these people - it’s not just women, it’s the men who do it as well - need to take responsibility for their actions. They are influencers. The clue is in the name. They influence other people into thinking it’s great. Just like mentioned earlier in the thread is MLM. The “freely using” people who love talking about it influence vulnerable less marketable people to take an irreversible step that they otherwise might not have taken.

There are many accounts of “I saw Person X doing it and thought why not me?”

It’s not the free users per se, it’s the Influencers.

PermanentTemporary · 25/01/2023 23:07

Sorry haven't read the whole thread.

OF is a pyramid marketing con that like most such schemes is sold to women with shit choices by a few people, mostly men. OF is unusual as it reinforces the patriarchal view of women as service cunts/wombs for men.

If I saw a friend on OF I'd be very concerned for her wellbeing.

Hope your article goes well.

OnceUponAWar · 25/01/2023 23:07

I don't think it's feminist at all for all the very good reasons mentioned by PP. But I also don't think that any of our choices always perfectly align with all of our personal values. Nor should they have to. Life is not an ideological purity contest, and sometimes cold, hard pragmatism wins over dearly held beliefs!

That said, there are very practical implications of stuff such as OF in particular, and hence: very solid pragmatic (as well as, again, feminist) reasons to steer well clear!

I'm an executive at a firm in the professional services field. In other words: my employer makes money by selling services based on the expertise of its staff to (typically corporate) clients. A few months ago, I received a call from a male peer of mine who was looking for my opinion, as a senior woman, on his situation:

My colleague had a young, very talented, and very hard working woman on his client team. And, as it turned out, said youngster had previously ended up on the internet (not OF but PornHub). Needless to say: someone at the client found out. And my colleague wanted to know if I thought he should kick her off his team. I didn't, on balance, think he should for a whole variety of reasons. And, really, neither did he.

He ended up taking her off that team anyway. Not because he thought it was embarrassing or detrimental to the firm's reputation (both of which could be argued) but because that poor woman didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being taken seriously as a professional once everyone at the client org had seen or at least heard of her stint in porn. No client wants their statistical analysis run by a porn star! (Because, and that's where we get back to the feminism bit: it's regarded as "less than" and not something any professional woman would get involved in. Because it's read as degrading stuff for the truly desperate. Etc.)

Long story short: don't do it, OP! If not for feminist reasons, which ought to be enough, then because you don't want some Wall Street Analyst to start snickering when you present the quarterly results in an earnings call 20 years from now!

ScrollingLeaves · 25/01/2023 23:09

And later on when you go for an interview and they recognise you from wanking to you?

BillyNighysWife · 25/01/2023 23:11

@Northernsoullover
Earning what this top creator does you really wouldn't give two hoots about being degraded

er what? You really think that some things aren’t degrading just because they earn you lots of money? You have very little idea how to protect your mental health and well being if you think that’s true.

On top of your odd belief that anything is fine as long as you are paid well, how about deciding not to do OF work because it perpetuates that idea that women are sex objects?

By the way, there is lots of evidence from studies that the vast majority on OF do NOT earn good money from it.

TangledWebOfDeception · 25/01/2023 23:13

I would like to repeat here that OF is terrible for men and boys too.

It is awful for us all. It will not lead to betterment of society, and in fact is already poisoning it and making things worse for many people.

BillyNighysWife · 25/01/2023 23:13

Interesting that OP has not bothered to reply to the many, long and considered responses.

AuntSallie · 25/01/2023 23:15

NotBadConsidering · 25/01/2023 23:04

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

Not the women that freely use. The women that freely use and talk about it in a glorifying manner. I do think these people - it’s not just women, it’s the men who do it as well - need to take responsibility for their actions. They are influencers. The clue is in the name. They influence other people into thinking it’s great. Just like mentioned earlier in the thread is MLM. The “freely using” people who love talking about it influence vulnerable less marketable people to take an irreversible step that they otherwise might not have taken.

There are many accounts of “I saw Person X doing it and thought why not me?”

It’s not the free users per se, it’s the Influencers.

Show quote history

That makes perfect sense! Yes the influencers are marketing OF and they do glorify it. It’s not something to do without careful thought and taking precautions. I completely agree with you on this aspect.

Sort of like how fertility clinics freely roam Uni campus job fairs with brochures glorifying selling your eggs to young women.

Boiledbeetle · 25/01/2023 23:16

Wether the OP is real or not there will be women on these boards who are thinking about using only fans. If this comes up in the searches and puts just one off then that's all good by me.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/01/2023 23:16

stunning observation, Billy

GroggyLegs · 25/01/2023 23:16

BillyNighysWife · 25/01/2023 23:13

Interesting that OP has not bothered to reply to the many, long and considered responses.

Isn't it just.

They could at least pretend to be interested.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/01/2023 23:17

Agree, boiled.

but still. I see him

GroggyLegs · 25/01/2023 23:18

All this empowerment bollocks - Feminism isn't about the individual, it's about all women.

Pan out from your own unique wants & needs and acknowledge that our actions affect other women & girls.

We all make choices, but don't kid yourself that OF and porn - while 'empowering' on an individual basis for the beautiful 22 year old paying off a loan - doesn't perpetuate the gross isea that women's value is tied to how much a man wants to fuck them.

RDAnna · 25/01/2023 23:18

Just sitting here wishing I was as articulate as @NotBadConsidering

AuntSallie · 25/01/2023 23:21

@OnceUponAWar
My colleague had a young, very talented, and very hard working woman on his client team. And, as it turned out, said youngster had previously ended up on the internet (not OF but PornHub). Needless to say: someone at the client found out.

Was the woman even asked about it? Pornhub is known for revenge porn and deepfake porn. She may be a victim, and now is being penalised for it.

Was this verified or a rumour? Gossip that she was in Pornhub may have been a complete fabrication engineered to ruin her career.

mrshoho · 25/01/2023 23:22

I'd advise against doing this if only for the fact that your images once posted are out of your control. I don't know much about OF but see it popping up on strange news articles with headlines 'my sideline earns me £3k a month so I've given up my accountancy career'. When I've clicked on it I have to read through a load of drivel before the reveal of what the sideline actually is. They feel like an advertising ploy rather than a genuine news article.

Original poster
JustGraduated · 25/01/2023 23:25

Wow - thank you all for the amazing response. I never expected this to get so much interest when I checked back.

Theres a lot of great comments in here & I do feel like I’ve been a bit naive about the impact it can have in the future especially around jobs and relationships.

Safe to say I won’t be going near it

OP posts:
postcardpuffin · 25/01/2023 23:27

How is what a woman chooses impacting any other women?

Participating in and perpetuating an industry that commodifies women as just bodies for sex and wanking and men’s purchase, and that treats women like a meat market of wank fodder rather than human beings, impacts on us all. It normalises treating women that way and shores up misogyny and sexism throughout society.

The fact that women and girls are valued less, thought of as sex objects, treated badly sexually (and in general) by men and male systems, and are subject to disproportionate amounts of male violence and male sexual violence, is intimated connected to the widespread normalisation of the sex industry. It always has been.

Being complicit in your own oppression is not empowerment. Giving the system the tools to oppress you and dehumanise you is not freedom — even if you think you do it freely. Many choices we make are bad for us, or harm society in general. This particular choice harms women and girls — and children and families — more than most.

Don’t kid yourself with choicey-choicey faux-feminism that all choices are empowering. We all know they aren’t; and anyone who pretends to be the cool girl/wife who is super cool with pornography and the sex industry is kidding themselves at best; disingenuous and in bad faith at worst.

We all know that OnlyFans isn’t just a bit of foot pictures and harmless posing in pretty underwear for adoring men, and anyone who claims to think so is deluded or exceptionally naive. The women who make actual money from it are performing live sex acts to order on camera, for subscribers who want something more titillating than you get on pornhub. It’s sticking objects up yourself or filming your arsehole in closeup for some bloke for a few quid, who might at any time be sending the screenshots anywhere he likes. It’s not glamorous and it’s not empowering for anyone; it’s seedy and perpetuates the degrading of women we see all over our culture, with men increasingly from early teens onwards thinking women are there just as holes to spaff on, hit and choke.

If you think it’s some kind of “neutral” activity, all about a kind of Instagram lifestyle, I’ve got a bridge to sell you, too.

Boiledbeetle · 25/01/2023 23:27

AuntSallie · 25/01/2023 23:21

@OnceUponAWar
My colleague had a young, very talented, and very hard working woman on his client team. And, as it turned out, said youngster had previously ended up on the internet (not OF but PornHub). Needless to say: someone at the client found out.

Was the woman even asked about it? Pornhub is known for revenge porn and deepfake porn. She may be a victim, and now is being penalised for it.

Was this verified or a rumour? Gossip that she was in Pornhub may have been a complete fabrication engineered to ruin her career.

Does it matter? As an example it works fine.

This had happened to many women. Don't try to pull a part one story when you know some quick internet searching will show you the truth.

And no I'm not searching Thank You very much.

Original poster
JustGraduated · 25/01/2023 23:28

BillyNighysWife · 25/01/2023 23:13

Interesting that OP has not bothered to reply to the many, long and considered responses.

Sorry for not getting back to thread so quick - never had any idea it would raise so much interest. Couldn’t believe it when I checked. Very grateful to everyone who commented

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 25/01/2023 23:30

JustGraduated · 25/01/2023 23:25

Wow - thank you all for the amazing response. I never expected this to get so much interest when I checked back.

Theres a lot of great comments in here & I do feel like I’ve been a bit naive about the impact it can have in the future especially around jobs and relationships.

Safe to say I won’t be going near it

You see, mumsnet is the font of good advice.