Onlyfans - good or bad for feminism?

[JustGraduated]

Hi all - I’m new here so not sure if this is the right topic for this forum. Sorry if it isn’t but would love to hear your opinions! Also sorry for how long this is!!!

I recently graduated from uni & one of my housemates (and best friends) had an onlyfans page. It was the cause of disagreement between her and our other housemate (and friend) who is a really strong feminist.

She is stunning and loved doing it, so regularly posted on it & did really well (like insane well). She made enough to cover tuition fees, rent, bills & a whole lot more beside. And don’t get me wrong she works hard on it.

Our other housemate was strongly against it. Saying that it was demeaning her as a female & that she should stop it if she respected herself.

The three of us all get on really well and besides a few little arguments between the two of them it never caused anything serious.

I just want to know what you guys think. Can you be a feminist and on Onlyfans? I often play with the idea of starting my own, especially when I look at my student loan debt and how well my friend did!

@NotBadConsidering
Oh yes, because something horrible happened to some women who used OF, then it will most definitely happen to the OP. Do you also warn women not to use Tinder because rapists have used it to find victims? Or don’t call an Uber because some of their drivers are rapists?

Everyone who shops at Primark, Shein, et al is perfectly happy giving money to businesses that use modern slaves in sweat shops and range from paying lip service to not giving a fuck about it. Why would you hold women who want to use OFs to a higher standard than women who buy clothes from low cost shops known for the same modern slavery issues? It’s only not ok if you’re the one making money instead of giving money to the slavers so they make money?

I don’t think OFs is “amazing” nor am I “enticing” anyone. I’m neutral about the whole thing and not judgemental about women freely choosing to use OF.

Its quite depressing when I hear it being suggested to women that they can set up an OF in order to earn a bit more cash to cover bills, food, etc. How easy it is and you don't have to do anything sexual, etc.

Depressing how sex work is becoming a more mainstream suggestion to women

Do you also warn women not to use Tinder because rapists have used it to find victims

Damn right I do.

And we don't have Uber where I live

There's photos of me in existence they are most likely on the internet now. I know they were probably sold by the pervert who took them.

I think about the amount of men who've looked at those. Wanked over those over the years and want to vomit.

@Boiledbeetle
I do genuinely admire that you are not a hypocrite in regards to warning women off Tinder or Uber (if you had it where you live) as well as OF. You’re consistent and adhere to your standards. That is rare these days.

I dont judge women who use OF, I judge the society that deems it acceptable, expected even, for women to turn to sex work if they find themselves in financial difficulties.

What's the saying, we should be putting food in their mouths, not dicks?

I’d say.. well if you have to ask.. there’s your answer

I agree. Society should not ever accept women doing it under economic duress. This means women are forced into sex work, it is not freely chosen.

Nope! It’s a huge step backward for women.
getting your bits and tits out for ANYone anywhere to see is just awful.
just think people you know- relatives, your children’s teachers - eeeuuughhh

Unfortunately my stance comes from a place of experience most of the time.

When it's great its great.

Then there's the drugged up women I used to sell the condoms to at the all night garage whilst their John's parked up out of view of the cameras.

Although for compete fairness I will also say I did go out with taxi driver once for a few months after he'd driven me home from work one night! So I'm not all room and gloom lock up your daughters.

Just lock them up until they are 40😁

Actually thinking back i was all room and gloom, but I meant doom and gloom

Oh yes, because something horrible happened to some women who used OF, then it will most definitely happen to the OP

I didn’t say that. But it’s important that people understand the realities of what it entails, not the sugar-coated version. And that includes Tinder etc.

Why would you hold women who want to use OFs to a higher standard than women who buy clothes from low cost shops known for the same modern slavery issues?

I don’t. It’s the same issue. People buy cheap clothes made in sweat shops because they can’t afford to take the higher ground. Women who use OF mostly do because they’re struggling financially and can’t afford to take the higher ground.

But people - men or women - who glorify OF or pretend sweat shops don’t happen are the problem.

It’s only not ok if you’re the one making money instead of giving money to the slavers so they make money?

If one is making money from OF one is making money for a company that is effectively the world’s biggest pimp, a company that tacitly allows trafficking and paedophilia. If someone is making money out of the company because it’s the only way to get by, they have my every sympathy and I would support a model that helps these women do something better. If someone is making money for themselves and for this company and pretending the company is wonderful and nothing bad happens ever, that person can get to fuck.

I’m neutral about the whole thing and not judgemental about women freely choosing to use OF.

But the women “freely choosing” make up a tiny fraction of the entire users. Most are doing it out of desperation or exploitation. And if someone is genuinely freely choosing, and they aren’t desperate or being trafficked or exploited, they legitimise such a pathway for women who may be on the brink of “free choice”.

Controversially I am going to say it depends who is using it! If a seasoned, savvy glamour model/celeb is using it in whatever capacity, and is making lots of ££££ and is comfortable with what she is choosing to share I think this is fine.

However, I have seen on various forums very young mothers using it as a way of making an extra £100 a week to help with the cost of living. I'm concerned that this is the go to now to make a quick buck without them realising what they're signing up for! Maybe I'm old fashioned, but it feels like these type of users are much more ripe for being taken advantage of! But maybe I'm being old fashioned?!

You could argue that sex work empowers women and can be a means for women to take control of their bodies and sexuality and earn a living on their own terms.

Obviously different people will have different opinions.

You could argue that sex work empowers women and can be a means for women to take control of their bodies and sexuality and earn a living on their own terms.

You could argue that. But it wouldn’t be valid.

@Boiledbeetle
Yes, as mothers we do advise our daughters and have more liberty to influence their decisions. Much more than we’d ever presume to do with another woman who is not our own child.

It’s a conundrum when thinking about what say should society have regarding the choices women have that could potentially harm them. A balance has to be struck.

How protective should we (society) be of women by banning/outlawing/stigmatising certain choices vs how much do we (society) value the emancipation of women such that they are free to make their own choices?

You see this often in terms of how do we prevent exploitation of the vulnerable without infantilising them? But with women it is very sticky because half of the we contributing to the discussion are men. A part of me certainly feels that men should have no say on womens issues.

In your opinion, it wouldn't be valid; you meant to say.

No. I meant exactly what I said.

It isn’t a valid argument.

Perhaps for a tiny, tiny minority. But for women as a class? No. Not valid.

No, she means it's just a stupid argument so it would be pointless to make it.

Look at some of the end of the alphabet beople people there are that used to make big money. K price katonna, that one off hollyoaks (who looks particularly dead behind the eyes in her photos she's not enjoying it).

Do you honestly think when they check how many punters they've got and look at the comments asking for disgusting shit and they'll send more money, every night those women feel good about themselves, lie back and go "yes, this is the life this was totally what i imagined my self doing in my late 40s"

???

I've read a couple of times on this thread that the women working in the sex industry voluntarily are in the minority- are there statistics to back this up? Wondering because I've gone back and forth on this similarly to the OP. I accept it's bad for women on the whole, but don't like the idea of telling women what they can/can't do with their bodies when it's legal and voluntary.

I've done a quick Google and it looks like around 4,000 are victims of trafficking out of 60,000 - 80,000 in the UK. Not an acceptable figure, but definitely doesn't appear to be the majority.

@TangledWebOfDeception I disagree! It can be empowering, but sadly for every woman that is empowered many more get taken advantage.

I think the main point of feminism is as females we're all allowed to disagree and have different opinions 🤷🏼‍♀️

My only concern about only fans is the safety aspect! If it was 100% safe and a woman wanted to get her breasts/bits out for money then she should be able to! Just as a man should be able to make money from his 🍆!

@NotBadConsidering
But the women “freely choosing” make up a tiny fraction of the entire users. Most are doing it out of desperation or exploitation. And if someone is genuinely freely choosing, and they aren’t desperate or being trafficked or exploited, they legitimise such a pathway for women who may be on the brink of “free choice”.

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

How is what a woman chooses impacting any other women? If a woman chooses not to use OF, it’s not going to save a woman who is on there due to exploitation or desoeration. This goes back to the example of a woman chooses to clean houses to make some extra cash, would she be legitimising a pathway to exploitation of desperate women who end up also cleaning houses?

Im not following your logic? Is it that women who choose OF, are taking money away from women who desperately need it more than them? But doesn’t that then reinforce the idea that sex work is expected and only accepted if you are desperate?