Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Starmer trying to have it every which way has left him pretty much despised by both "sides". Now, I despise him for far more than this but know, without a shadow of a doubt, that I would not go to a vigil for a murdered teenager chanting "Fuck Kier Starmer". I'd happily chant it at a demonstration or outside the Houses of Parliament, but a vigil? No.

That's just awful. Where's the decency? But yeah, fuck Keir Starmer too.

Yeah, wrong place for those chants. I do wonder if they'll try to "let's go Brandon" it.

Our local primary school has been teaching 9 year olds not to use “wrong” pronouns for their “non-cisgender” classmates and also teaching them all about the fine EA protected characteristic of Gender Identity.

Sets font to Green CAPS

I'd be interested in a book club. Holly Lawford-Smith's book, for instance, has lots of food for thought and debate. And all the earlier books (Joyce, Stock etc.) could be discussed together, perhaps, or by a topic?

Another American is hauled over the coals for pretending to be someone they're not:

theintercept.com/2023/02/16/american-friends-service-committee-raquel-saraswati/

Lipstick and nail varnish: good; fake tan: bad.

With a useful summary of other cases. Childishly, I find it all hilarious.

Kuc in answer to your question about what I should do if faced with the pronouns question, I had decided to ignore it and not make any statement. But the question didn't arise, possibly because the meeting was 25% civil servants, 75% commercial.

A lot of people in my worlplace have pronouns in their email signatures. I don't and nonoe has ever raised it with me in the two years I have been there.

TBH it is not really a political statement from me, I just happen to think email signatures are practical information peices and should contain your name, job title, organisation name and email/phone number and that is it. I also don't add any corporate slogans or links to the lastest news relase/shiny thing or whatever bollocks the comms department periodically try and get us to add.

During the time of COVID, DH was involved in a Serious High-Level Meeting with Large Important Organisation. He was part of a team of (apparently carefully chosen⭐︎) representative senior academics and management from the Faculty. In the run-up to the Meeting, the event organiser sent round a series of requests for participant information that would be displayed on the [Zoom?Teams?etc] screens, including the Dreaded Pronouns. DH pointedly ignored the Pronouns request.

Come the Meeting, DH was startled to observe that the organiser had proactively assumed his gender and designated He/Him pronouns. You may be astonished to hear that the entire team was a screenful of male/pale/stale He/Hims.

⭐︎Prior to the Meeting, DH had tried repeatedly to champion several very excellent female and/or minority academics to be included in the team and even offered to step down to accommodate them.

You may be astonished to hear that the entire team was a screenful of male/pale/stale He/Hims.

That must have upset the Faculty. If only 52% of them had been persuaded to self-pronoun into the She/Her category, they could have claimed to be fully representative.

Our local primary school has been teaching 9 year olds not to use “wrong” pronouns for their “non-cisgender” classmates and also teaching them all about the fine EA protected characteristic of Gender Identity.

I think this must fall under Badenoch's "teaching contested theory as fact".

Apparently there was a hearing in relation to Giggle v Tickle today. I wonder how this would go down in the UK?

twitter.com/WomensForumAust/status/1626353105108635648

bignosebignose · Today 06:55
Our local primary school has been teaching 9 year olds not to use “wrong” pronouns for their “non-cisgender” classmates and also teaching them all about the fine EA protected characteristic of Gender Identity.

Have you considered broaching the wrongness of this with the school? There has been another thread recently by a mother who has written to her primary school age daughter’s school. She must be still waiting to hear back. If you are interested someone could find it, as there is all sorts of useful information there.

Something I wonder about (in fact I wondered if there was a thread in it) is, is this pronoun stuff here to stay? Or will it all be forgotten about in 20 years time? It's not just in English, but every language apparently. I'd like to see the back of it, but are we way past that point now? What do people think will happen?

Interesting question! I’m gonna guess “yes”, this will continue, it feels too big to peter out naturally and embarrassedly.

Can't remember the exact thread title for that but it mentions No Outsiders. It's mainly about the problematic nature of that specific organisation, but there are some useful links to sources that can be referenced in more general letters.

This was the thread. @Vebrithien wrote an excellent letter which she spent ages thinking about. The issue is not identical, but related as are a lot of advice and links on her two threads. She must still be waiting for a reply.

^Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured*

127 replies
Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51
Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

I read the first thread on that at the time, and completed the second just now. Gotta say, that is some sterling work by the OP there, with excellent MN support.

Thinking of ‘sex not gender’, please will anyone who hasn’t before, please consider having a look at the update the Equality Act petition on a ‘Petition’ thread, or the petitions board? It needs support to achieve its aim.

It's a ludicrous fad amongst the most privileged people.

As an aside, gendered pronouns are not found in the majority of languages.
wals.info/feature/44A#2/18.0/149.1

I'd agree it's a fad, but seems to be established in French, German, Italian etc just like in English. Unfortunately. Whether the genie can be put back in the bottle...

Well people used to call each other "cat" and "daddio" at one point but they've fallen into disuse and I imagine eventually, when the kidz start trying to not be down with whatever their parents are doing, they'll be like, so over pronouns.

'Thee', 'thine' and 'thou' have pretty much died a death.

Still hanging on in Yorkshire!

Yorkshire twitter must be a joy, 'appen!

I remember an elderly neighbour, a Yorkshireman, coming round with his dog one time. When they left, he looked at the dog and said 'Come along, thee'. Even in Lincolnshire there was still a fair bit of theeing and thouing amongst older people.