Are gender neutral people "anti-trans?"

[whereaw]

Just been pondering this in response to another thread.

I am a woman. I don't really believe gender is a thing beyond being a social construct.

Gender neutral people would agree, I presume.

Trans people believe sex or gender is the most all encompassing thing. And must switch to be one or the other.

So, if I am anti trans, are gender neutral people also?

How can you believe both that gender doesn't exist for you, ie be neutral, whilst also believe it does for someone else so much that they have to change it?

Do you mean non binary/agender people?

Yes

No i dont think so, by saying you are neutral you recognise gender as a proper thing but you are saying you are neither, not that the idea of trans doesnt exist.

I'm GC
I'm not anti trans
I don't believe people can change sex
But can live how ever they wish to present

That doesn't give people the right to push aside other people, mostly women, and gain access to our protected safe space...toilets, changing rooms, counselling services and most importantly vulnerable incarcerated women in our prisons.

This is quite different to the push on gender identity ideology to our young children, the normalisation of bluring of lines and "changing sex" mantra. The introduction of MAP under the trans umbrella 🌂, Drag Queens story time, with visible genitalia, the cutting off of healthy breasts, inversion of penises and puberty blockers which sterilise our children.

What's gender neutral. I'm not wearing any makeup today - rarely do. And I'm wearing trousers. Am I gender neutral?

But gender neutral/ non binary people believe gender is not the same as sex.
And I presume trans people believe it is?

I believe everyone is gender neutral!

Some do, some don't. I agree that in some ways the views conflict.

Who knows what so-called non-binary people believe.
Sex is not gender. Two sexes. 3 sexual orientations. 7.8 billion personalities.

Amen!!

No.

I fit stonewall description for non binary and similar. As do most people I know.

But I'm atheist and I don't agree with compelling the speech of others so I don't go around announcing.

Non binaries necessarily assume every one else is binary, be they trans or not.

Like most religions, Gender ideology struggles with the concept of true atheism. Fundamentalists prefer to slur non-believers instead ( heretic, infidel, terf).

Thankfully my Muslim, Christian and Jewish friends are happy for me to believe differently to them. I suppose Gender in its current form is quite a new belief system, so believers are a bit more fundamentalist.

I just fail to see how some people can be binary (ie sex = gender) and must transition if they feel like the other gender/sex.

and others non binary (ie sex is irrelevant) they are both/fluid or none, but don't need to change sex.

The views just don't seem to fit (in my mind).

Btw I don't believe I'm anti-trans, that's just what society says if you question if a man can truly become a woman and vice versa.

I just find the whole thing confusing!

So basically the idea is anyone can be a man, or a woman, or neither. Take your pick?

Btw I don't believe I'm anti-trans, that's just what society says if you question if a man can truly become a woman and vice versa.

It's not society that says that. It's just the believers in gender ideology.

And you would be right to question whether a man can truly become a woman and vice versa. In fact, you would be correct to deny it. Because it's simply not possible.

According to one City council: "Agender" is "a term for individuals who are genderless or who reject gender identification completely."

I could see myself agreeing that that describes me.

However this City Council also files this under 'trans'.

So I don't have a gender identity but I am a trans woman.

I think what I mean is that non-binary and trans people are lumped together as being the new, enlightened few, who also suffer discrimination and hatred. Who must be heard!

But to me one denies something and the other embraces it as the most important thing.

It's like atheists and believers worshiping together.

I feel like I am going mad!

I think a lot of people who would describe themselves as agender think there is such a thing as a gender identity but they don't have one. Isn't it more like Satanists don't believe in God, but they don't deny he exists.

I don't believe anyone has a gender identity, but I know some people believe that everyone does have a gender identity.

@IcakethereforeIam says "I don't believe anyone has a gender identity, but I know some people believe that everyone does have a gender identity."

To which I add,,,

I don't believe anyone has a soul, but I know some people believe that everyone does have a soul.

I don't believe anyone has an aura, but I know some people believe that everyone does have an aura. Indeed, I have acquaintances who have told me seriously that they can see mine.

It's all the same thing.

Yes I agree there is a contradiction.
Transwomen/Transmen believe that you have the 'soul' of the opposite sex and can cross over from one sex to another and physically resemble the other sex as much as possible in a 'realistic' way through surgery, clothing etc. Biological sex has to be real or there would not be anything to transition from-to.
Non-binary believe that sex is a spectrum, we are all the same but there are multiple genders and you can mix it up- man in dress with beard, queer theory boundry breaking of deviating from the sex stereotypes , the abolition of sex, although it does just fall into cliché's- woman with short hair is more 'male' and male non-binary is very Sam Smith- feels female today so wears high heels and glitter and cries a lot.

The contradictions in this belief system will drive you mad, if you let them. At its heart, gender ideology is just a belief system about the self. And like any belief system in a pluralistic society, you should be free to follow or ignore it as you choose, without that infringing on your own rights and freedoms. Unfortunately we're not at that point, hence all the battles taking place across politics, the law, sports, healthcare and so on.

"Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Neither. I'm an atheist."
"Yes, but what sort of atheist are you: Catholic or Protestant?"

Agender/bigender/genderfree/blahblahblah people believe that gender is more important than sex. Hence they classify as trans. The rest of us - even though by our behaviour would fit under the trans umbrella - believe that sex is more important than 'gender'. We are gender atheists.

A lot of NB people call themselves "trans nonbinary" and some also have surgery due to dysmorphia despite being NB so no they aren't

What about people who actively fight against the gender that’s imposed on them, but don’t identify with the opposite gender?

Occasionally, I really feel the gendered expectations placed on me. I call this Mildred after my grandmother who had very strong Views about how women, and by extension me, should act. I sometimes go along with the expectations because it’s easier and so ingrained. I don’t like it, but I don’t think I’m a man either.

i like gender abolitionist maybe. Burn it all down and let everyone be who they are without the expectation of gender stereotypes.

I am gender critical - to me it seems to reinforce stereotypes then measures whether people "girl or boy" enough to fit the stereotypes. Then says if they don't fit the stereotypes they must have been born wrong.

I am not anti trans in as much as I very much think that people should be able to dress and act and be named in whatever manner they prefer (legally). Essentially, I think trans as a twrm could be abolished if we just stopped measuring people against their stereotypes.

I would be classed as a TERF as regardless of the above, I am of the (scientific) opinion that you cannot change sex, that single sex spaces should remain as such, with third spaces added where possible. I'm obviously not a TERF but anything other than Trans women are Women is seen as Terfy.