Kelly Holmes changes her mind on trans inclusion in women's sports?

[HootyMcboob76]

"Equally, the vast majority of sport is played on a local playing field where taking part and inclusion, as well as physical and mental health benefits are perhaps more important than winning.’"
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dame-kelly-holmes-admits-she-was-previously-ignorant-about-trans-athletes/ar-AA16qIej?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=669f524540e644eeb669ce51f43b9e00

I read this as her saying that women should just be grateful to be playing, never mind if a biological male beats them! In other words, be kind, shut up, and be prepared to lose out on a medal, as long as the special male athlete gets to participate.

She is now a proud member of the special community so apparently a gay woman cannot continue to fight for women's sports being for women?

Other gay female athletes (e.g. Martina Navratilova) have still been able to say that natal males should not be included in women's sports.

Does anyone read this article differently?

*someone

Presumably now that her career is being a “sports personality” rather than a competing sportswoman, that has led to a corresponding change in her views. She is not the first woman in the world to think that other women shouldn’t reach the pinnacle she did herself (see Margaret Thatcher as an example).

When it is done, small scale local projects show that female only sports activities result in more females playing sport. Back when we cared about the mental and physical health of girls and women, women only activities were promoted and encouraged with positive results.. for women and girls. Now any mention of those words comes under scrutiny and funds and efforts are no longer diverted into these aims. The evidence will bear out in the years to come and see whether inclusion results in more people playing sport and how that impact is seen between the sexes but only if we capture sex and not gender data... and only if anyone can get funding to do the research.

And it’s also true that those who reach the elite level start off at grassroots level. A girl does well and wins at junior level, sees a future as an elite. A woman starts off at club level and gets noticed by a bigger club.

But a girl who loses to a male as a junior? Maybe she thinks “what’s the point?” A woman who never gets game time because a male is playing in her position instead? Never gets the chance to advance.

Kelly Holmes is entitled to change her mind, but when it changes from a position of reason, science, fact, fairness and safety to a position of propaganda, religious fervour and lies she should expect criticism.

There are already mixed sex versions of many sports that would be suitable for transwomen. Single sex women's sport is not the place for them. When I play women's football I take pride in my strength and speed against fellow women. That doesn't exist against men. It's a totally different game. I actually wear more flimsy shinpads when playing mixed football as it's a far less physical game.

I've seen a single transwoman come on in an 11-a-side game and completely change the entire character of the game. It resulted in that team winning when they would not have otherwise done so. I guess we should just be glad the other 21 of us were able to provide a nice environment for that person to feel like a superior sportswoman.

I should clarify - mixed sex football is a less physical game because the men hold back. They cannot play to the best of their ability as they would if it was single sex.

Mixed sex sport is great and increasingly common. Also many sports at grassroots level have 'whoever turns up' scratch meets/matches. Fine stuff. If it's a sex-segregated event, go along with your sex class or find another event. I do question why Kelly Holmes would suddenly not be able to say that clearly. I'd agree with others on here that she actually was trying to say that, sort of.

There are of course people with VSDs for whom this is more complicated. That's where the case by case consideration should come in. Not for the 99.98% of us with a known sex from conception.

Agree with above.
I participate in several mixed sex leagues because there's better competition there. But I also support the women only league (there is no equivalent men only league). Most of the women in that league don't participate in the mixed league because the gulf is quite large and the way the game is played is different. Some of them improve and then move onto the mixed leagues. We would lose those women if there wasn't a women only league.

Interesting that USA rowing allows male rowers who identify as women to compete in all female races but don't allow them to compete as women in mixed sex events. Wonder why?🤔

Quite! Think they've worked out how disadvantaged a truly mixed team would be against a mixed team made up of male bodied athletes.

I think this depends on the sport - and I'm talking specifically about a team contact sport. The competition is better in single sex for me, because I can be competitive in a way I can't against men due to their physicality. I play the mixed-sex version purely because it's fun and social and not serious.

That is such a prime example of double think. How can people sit round a table and seriously discuss that as an issue without their heads falling off?

If winning doesn’t matter as much as taking part why aren’t TW agitating to be in mens sport? Because winning DOES matter and the instances there have been find mediocre male athletes winning gold medals when they switch to the women’s category. It’s only women who are meant to clap politely as a male with huge physical advantage takes their medals from them which they have spent years training for.

So only top athletes should be protected in contact sports Kelly? Joker, lost any respect I may have had for her. Which wasn't that much after seeing her doc about mental health and how the poor top athletes suffer so badly tbh.

I think people like this have got a mental block somewhere. So taking part is the only thing? Tell that to Kelly when she was competing for her Olympic medal. Would she have appreciated some guy who identified as a woman running against her? Absolute cobblers! Men are men and women are women physically and a man cannot become a woman. I do notice there are not too many men who want to become women in Iran, are there?

It's not a nuanced issue. There's no need to try to create nuance. It's very simple and very obvious, and I've absolutely no time for anyone who pretends otherwise.

Competing against a male competitively in a non-contact sport is bad enough - you get beaten despite trying your best, but in a contact sport you can't even play properly at all. You can't go in for hard tackles or headers without risking serious physical harm, so you back off entirely. You can't even enjoy the taking part or competing against your own previous performance. You just become a prop for someone else's enjoyment.

I think this depends on the sport - and I'm talking specifically about a team contact sport. The competition is better in single sex for me, because I can be competitive in a way I can't against men due to their physicality. I play the mixed-sex version purely because it's fun and social and not serious.

I agree. I play tennis and the men aren't really that keen on playing with the women because they end up holding back. They never serve their hardest, the game is different.

Ah, here we have it.
Thought it was a bit odd.

Oh well, she's wrong on this, but I wish her happiness in her re-educated life.

Well, she's got her medals so pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest.

It's not a nuanced issue. There's no need to try to create nuance. It's very simple and very obvious, and I've absolutely no time for anyone who pretends otherwise.

Agree absolutely but for some, losing financial opportunities as Sharron Davis has done for her principled stand on women's sport, is obviously asking too much.

Most amateur athletes/ sports people I know do take it seriously and so train hard. People care about their position in a race. They care about their time compared to others. The ones who are good care deeply about winning, or winning their age and sex category.

The races I do publish age and sex category of each competitor so you can see how well you did compared to your peers. All that is meaningless if there are men in the women’s category.
we can’t all be professional athletes but don’t patronize amateur sports people. We know when the competition is unfair. We know when we are cheated out of a win we’ve worked hard for. This does matter.

We all know how stupid he is. If (say) Andy Murray suddenly decided to ‘identify’ as a woman he could probably beat all the women as he is just stronger even now. But would it be fair? Of course not! Any professional athlete with any brain will tell you. To say that competing is the only thing that matters is ludicrous because the idea of sport is to win, even at amateur level. Just ask a bunch of kids to run a race and they all want to win. So where Kelly Holmes has got these lunatic ideas from I just don’t know. Maybe a reaction from the ultra competitive Olympics. But leave her to a nutty ideas

We all know how stupid he is. If (say) Andy Murray suddenly decided to ‘identify’ as a woman he could probably beat all the women as he is just stronger even now. But would it be fair? Of course not! Any professional athlete with any brain will tell you. To say that competing is the only thing that matters is ludicrous because the idea of sport is to win, even at amateur level. Just ask a bunch of kids to run a race and they all want to win. So where Kelly Holmes has got these lunatic ideas from I just don’t know. Maybe a reaction from the ultra competitive Olympics. But leave her to a nutty ideas

Shame. On. You. Kelly.