Womens rights - going topless in public

[Newusernameaug]

I’m sorry if I don’t articulate this particularly well, but I’m feeling increasingly angry that as women we’re forced to wear something covering our nipples when men don’t as I feel it’s constantly reaffirming sexism.

I wild swim and sauna a lot. When I’m cold water wild swimming I genuinely can’t undo a bikini top as my hands are obviously so cold, so have to swim in pull on / off tops. I go naked when somewhere isolated, but often swim in more public places.
In the sauna this week I wore a bikini with metal rings on the back (where the straps join) and it was burning my back.

I feel that if women were just allowed to be topless as and when they wanted to, like men can, (but obviously not inappropriately) it would dispel this mystery and allure around breasts and would help men to see us as all shapes and sizes.

However I’m not sure if I’m being extreme? I’m really angry about our rights being eroded at present and somehow can see this is linked but can’t articulate it.

I guess I’m just wondering if others feel this way too? I’m not saying I want to walk round topless, but as an example, having travelled a fair bit I’m fully aware other in other countries women can enter saunas topless or naked and no one bat an eyelid.
why are we so repressed in the UK?

I live in a country where nude saunas are the norm (mixed too) and there are plenty of areas available for nude sunbathing and swimming.

It doesn’t make any difference. Sexism is as rife as ever.

@Newusernameaug if your hands (and presumably your body) are so cold that you can't undo a bikini top then you are at risk of hypothermia and should be wearing a wetsuit not swimming in a bikini or naked

It's legal to go out in public without a top or even legal, can't quite remember the term but it's something like 'as long as you don't cause distress' whatever that means.

There are plenty of naked ramblers, topless open water swimming seems fine?

Guess saunas are within a business premises and they'll have a level of dress code although you could claim its sexist I guess.

There's definitely a double standard. I'd gladly apply the same rules all around, whether you're male or female. Beaches, parks, saunas, swimming pools you should be able to go topless if the men are. In shops, on trains, walking down the High Street etc. then frankly no one wants to see the men topless either.

I don't know. I used to feel like that but then I went to a pride parade where there were lots of trans "men" that were top less and it made me really uncomfortable. My niece who was 9 at the time witnessed it and was very distressed. This parade was supposed to be family friendly and was advertised as such. We left immediately of course. And I realized then that though there are many reasonable people can distinguish between what is appropriate and what is not many can't and will try to push the boundaries beyond what is reasonable. That is why I gave up on this.

honestly, I think it’s so far down the list of important concerns for women right now. Though I can see from your post history that you disagree. “Free the nipple” is the sort of pretend “feminist activism” that TRAs get excited about because it’s sexy, and because it doesn’t improve women’s lives in any material way.

Yeah.
The only context in which I think it makes a real difference for women is when they're harassed for breastfeeding, or feel they have to be incredibly secretive with not the slightest nipple exposure.

Yes, there is a double standard.

No, we don’t particularly want to see men topless.

Most women don’t actually want to be able to go topless.

Your reasons for wanting to are incredibly niche.

Where I’m from, that sort of activity usually involves a wetsuit - which both women and men avail of.

This line should really say:

^Most women don’t actually want to be able to go topless.

I absolutely go topless on the beaches where I live in Dorset. I hate wearing a bikini to sunbathe so mostly, I don't.
In Europe, they have single sex swimming sessions and the women swim nude. If absolutely love that here.

Personally, I wish everyone would wear more clothing, not less 😊. Just don't like seeing too much body ( male or female) in public places. Although if it were possible to have single sex, private spaces, I think it would be good if they could offer nude sessions if required. I think nude swimming would be tempting for a lot of people, but I would never trust that some creep hadn't set up a hidden camera.

I've always felt this was really unfair particularly as my children feel pressure to cover up (not from me) at swimming etc, Yet they haven't gone through puberty yet so there is no difference between their and male bodies.

I see others saying this isn't a priority for feminism at the moment and whilst I agree there are bigger fish to fry, I do think this is a problem. Women's bodies must be covered (why are they more offensive than male bodies? Is it to stop men being tempted?) and is one of the first time that even as a child you become aware of the division between you and the boys.

I have no desire to go topless (believe me no one wants to see that) presumably because since I was a child it has been drummed into me that my breasts are shameful, sexual and offensive. So then breastfeeding in public feels taboo. And going to the GP with a lump in the breast is embarrassing. And being comfortable in what I am wearing is secondary to complying with the social requirement to cover up.

So I agree with you OP. It's not equal, and there is no justification for it. It isn't fair.

I'd rather noone went topless tbh.

More is less IMHO.

Do we have to try and stoop to what men are doing all the time? It's not always a laudable thing.

Just read back through the thread and glad to see loads agree 😂

We're not repressed in the UK. Women cover their nipples because we have these things called breasts that men don't have. Why would it be good for women to be topless? What possible benefit could that be for us?
Are we so determined to destroy every single thing that differentiates us from men?
If you want to get your boobs out, find a UK nudist camp. Personally i quite like to keep a sense of modesty and privacy.

This. It also sounds like one of those 'choice for women' movements that benefit men. Yes let us choose to get our tits out, yes let us choose to sell our bodies, lads are right on board I'm sure.

I'd rather men had to wear tops. It's only ever men who think they are gods gift that do this.

I don't want to go topless personally.
I don't think men should either, and in some places, certainly where I am, most men don't go topless even in summer. It would only be a few teens and such

I agree with you OP

I'm not sure I'm too bothered about concealing my nipples but sure as heck I'm not going to have much fun without a bra, supportive swimsuit or wetsuit!

My opinion is that there are more instances where men should cover up.

Agree about saunas, wrapped in a towel only or sat naked on a towel as the Germans do is the best way and most comfortable.

Only my knees would be grateful if I ever decided to go topless.

I agree with you OP. Why are we still so messed up as far as the human body is concerned? And why is there such imbalance between men and women concerning this? Whilst certainly in our northern climes it's wise to cover up and there is a place for modesty and appropriateness a lot of time (which is why I totally appreciate where you are coming from @KinkyMom ) that's a very far cry from implying the naked body or any part of it - male or female - is "indecent", or simply because it's naked is therefore inevitably "sexual".

And sadly this is especially the case with women's bodies. I remember as a teenager having my first glimpse of a woman's nipple (apart from my mother's when I was breast-fed I guess) on a beach when someone in front of me was getting changed out of her swimming costume and her towel fell open slightly. I couldn't stop thinking about it for weeks (I guess I was a teenage boy!) but that poor woman had been sexualised in my eyes simply because women's nipples were never seen in the same way as a man's would be and therefore it just wasn't "normal".

As I've got older (and three of my four children are daughters, now grown young women, and have a wife I've been married to for over twenty five years) I've grown to appreciate and dislike the fact that there is a double-standard in what is expected of women as opposed to men.

Why on earth should anyone think it is indecent for a woman's nipples to be visible any more than a man's, or if they are, to sexualise it? They are a perfectly normal part of the human body Why do women have less of a choice about this than men? Why can't we just be grown up about it? We all have bodies, female or male. All equal.

This is why it is something pretty fundamental to me. It is the beginning of the shaming when we teach children that make bodies are grand to be bare, but girls must cover theirs. It is deeply unfair and has subtly pernicious effects that people do not pay enough attention to. Torsos are ok to show, or not ok to show, there should be no difference between men and women.

That said, I would rather men be covered up a lot more often than many are.

I appreciate your opinion. But my mind is made up. There are bigger fish to fry in the women's rights department. And I think there are some very lovely men that want to fight for this. But I've come to conclusion that men and women ARE different and that's not bad. And we have different legal sex based needs and that's not bad either. But there's definitely some self serving men who have boosted this movement for the wrong reasons. If you want clothing equality fight to make it illegal for men to be shirtless. Women have much bigger problems. I don't think it's possible to make men stop sexualizing women. In the middle east they get excited about ankles. I appreciate that covering up doesn't solve the problem. But the extreme opposite won't either. I think there are benevolent forces at play. This isn't a fight that's high on my list. You can go for it if you want but I'm not subscribing to it.