Is the anything solid at all to back up TransPeople being the most vulnerable?

[OldFashionedWomen]

I'm not a deep thinker, big researcher or particularly experienced with this topic.

But I see this "most vulnerable" phrase being trotted out.

No stars have crossed my path to support this, so I'm going on instinct that transgender people are not the most vulnerable of society.

I'm sure life can be a struggle avd a challenge for them; not feeling like they fit it, feeling that their wait to access medical intervention is long, feeling that people judge them, or dislike them. But those are just feelings? Feelings are hard and we all struggle with them sometimes.

Are they in danger? If so from what? Avd if they are in Danger, are they more in danger than a trafficked person?

In my very simple mind, being trans is an element of your personality, and no one should suffer for havering a certain style, idiosyncrasy, so why are massive accommodations being request for them?

Happy to read more into the stats of vulnerability if someone can link.

Thanks all

I’ve never seen any supporting data.

Also, this ‘certificate’ they are going to get in Scotland (maybe), what will they do with it? I’ve never had to produce a piece of paper to do anything. Except my passport to travel.

Pleas find a few relevant links below. 😊

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf

bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-08902-3

www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/ie-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity/struggle-trans-and-gender-diverse-persons

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Curiously enough the actual data seem to show the opposite. Eg murder rates show TW are equally as likely to commit murder as they are to be a victim of that.
Sex crime figures show that 48% of TW are in prison for sex crimes against women and children, compared to 16% of men in general.

Anecdata will have you believe victim status because most of it is self reported. "Victim of a hate crime" includes your mum using your birth sex pronoun.

@Circumferences -

There must be a typo in your comment.

Did you intend to write that “ 48% of TW in prison are ….”?

Either way, would you please provide a link to your sources? If I’ve not miss understood the original poster - they requested ‘solid’ information which I assume means that they would appreciate referenced peer reviewed articles etc.
thanks!

It's really unhelpful when Mumsnet delete your post for telling the truth 🙄

No. Dyslexicdementor
No typo.

The MOJ released Data in 2018 showing that half of all transgender inmates have been convicted with one or more sex offenses.

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/
See First paragraph in the above link from Fair Play for Women.

womansplaceuk.org/2020/12/16/fair-play-for-women-uncover-new-crime-data/
See top paragraph from Women's place UK.

The BBC themselves even had to admit the fact that around half of male transpeople in prison are inside with one or more sex offense conviction. But I'm not digging any more links out.

Suppose it depends on your definition of the terms "vulnerable" and "trans". I'd have thought that prostitutes of any flavour, abused women, and children, single pensioners living alone, drug addicts, Afghan women, are a lot more vulnerable, all in slightly different ways.

I only have US data, but I think it's relevant as we know male pattern violence has similar trends around the world. Please note that the US has a much higher murder rate but take of it what you will (my personal opinion is it's due to gun access). I wanted to give context to this reporting: www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/report-says-at-least-32-transgender-people-were-killed-in-the-u-s-in-2022

PLEASE note that I am happy to have my math challenged...in fact, I welcome any statistician to review as I want this data to be as accurate as possible.

(Rates are per 100,000 based on US population data)

There were 24,576 recorded homicides in 2022. 1,011 of these murders were children under the age of 14. A rate of 1.7 (I list this group twice to reinforce my conclusion below)

4,618 women were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 2.8

19,958 men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 12.3

332 Native American men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 13.5.

11,935 Black men were murdered in the US in 2022. That's a rate of 52.7!!!! (a massive tragedy and IMO due in part to our historical stain of slavery)

Native American men make up roughly 1.4% of the US population. Pew Research in 2021 found that about 1.6% of US adults are transgender or non-binary. So similar sized populations.

Compare 32 trans people murdered vs 332 Native Men for a similar sized population.

My very rough math is putting the murder rate of transwomen to about 1.28 so BELOW the rate of women being murdered and FAR below the rates of male populations, and below the rates of similarly sized Native American male population (and arguably one that can point to discrimination, poverty and historical wrongs)

The murder rate for US children ages 0-14 per 100k is 1.7.

Trans people and non-binary people are SAFER than children in the US.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Oddly, no one is arguing that Black men be shielded by women in our prisons, bathrooms or changing places. You could argue they'd be much safer with us than their male peers.

Thank you MNHQ for reinstating my post at 17:35 that simply stated true statistical facts.

Very enlightening to see some stats - I always roll my eyes when the “vulnerable” trope is rolled out (which it is in every single discussion on the subject)

I have grave concerns about the vulnerability of all the autistic gender non conforming girls identifying as trans.

So I don't disagree that specific groups of trans identifying people are exceptionally vulnerable.

The very people that they are vulnerable from though are the same people who are using their vulnerability as a stick to weaken the protections for women and girls.

The people trying to protect them and women/children generally) are the people the vulnerability stick is being used to beat.

So let's start agreeing that they are very vulnerable, and require extra special protections to safeguard them from sexism, homophobia, exploitation and additional mental health support. Allow us to put protections in place to weed out the bad actors and the fakers.

Why would anyone wanting to protect this very vulnerable group have an issue with that?

Delphinium20 · Today 20:38

In the UK it's similar, transpeople are actually less likely to be a victim of murder than any other demographic

I'll link to the Channel 4 fact check

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

Quote from above article follows

According to these figures, there was one trans person murdered in the UK in that time, and a total of nine trans people were murdered in the UK between 2008 and 2017. That’s an average rate of one victim per year.

A back-of-envelope calculation based on this data would suggest that the average trans person has a one-in-200,000 to one-in-500,000 chance of being murdered in the UK over the course of a year.

How does that compare to the wider population?
Figures from the ONS for 2008 to 2017 show that the average adult in England and Wales has a one-in-100,000 chance of being murdered in a given year.

The limited data we’re working with suggests that in the UK at least, a trans person is less likely to be murdered than the average person.

In the news yesterday was information about that man who murdered his pregnant girlfriend and three children. He took the lives of 5 people in one act.

Now tell me how many trans people have been murdered in the U.K. in the last ten - hell, twenty - years and tell me again why they are ‘most vulnerable’?

There is nothing.

Researchers estimate that people with learning disabilities were up to 6 x more likely to die from covid than the general population. They're vulnerable - and completely ignored. There's only so much 'most vulnerable' handwringing I can stomach tbh.

They're very vulnerable, the most vulnerable in society. They certainly trump children with cancer, paraplegics you name it if you're trans you are the most vulnerable with the most sensitive disposition and God forbid you dare call them by the wrong pronoun - yes I'm being facetious and no not all are like that. But honestly I couldn't care less. As long as you're not trying to brainwash my children into questioning their sexuality there are way more important things going on in the world and frankly the trans community is a non entity

People with learning difficulties certainly seem to be ignored in the ongoing campaign to make healthcare information “more inclusive”.

Nope. They're pretty much the most priveleged people in society as present, with special human right's that trump others.

Because they (were) men, and men have to win at everything......even if the proof is there that they don't.......

This!

Oops I Just realized my grammar was a bit shit because obviously I mean
48% of TW who are in prison are in there for....

I obviously don't think 48% of all transwomen in the UK are in prison for sex offenses! But in my defense you'd have to be a bit thick to think that so I didn't exactly perfect my sentences... Sorry pendents...

From a thread the other day...

Seems that in the UK at least, being trans puts you in the least vulnerable demographic. Which you’d think would be cause for celebration, but no.

Sex crime figures show that 48% of TW in prison are convicted of sex crimes against women and children, compared to 16% of men in general.

Just says it all really.

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/